http://www.rsracing.com/tech-wheel.html

STR.T performance shock absorbers for your cars. Enter now to win a FREE set of four (4) KONI STR.Ts for your car as part of KONI's new product kickoff. One winner will be chosen.

To enter, click http://www.koni-na.com/upload.cfm fill out the form and submit a photo of your car. Tell us in 25 words or less why your Eclipse or Avenger needs the KONI STR.Ts more than anyone else's. Only entries with 25 words or less will be considered. The contest runs from March 4th through midnight, April 3rd, 2013. The winners will be notified by email shortly after the end of the contest.

The dangers of replacing coil springs

Ben and Russ show want can go wrong when replacing coil springs on a vehicle.

I cannot recommend more highly the H&R spring s for the 07- Outlander. WHAT A DIFFERENCE!
To me the most annoying part of driving the Outlander was the soft initial spring rate. So soft is it that a lane change brings about a body lean - not a lot but enough to annoy me and most passengers - bobble heading.
Well installing the H&R's solved that - and without and appreciable loss of ride comfort - in fact the ride in every day driving - much better. Pot holes - yes you feel them more. Yes you lose some clearance - 1.5" - but these wagons are not geared for off roading anyway.
Highway handling is much improved and cornering is much more predictable - in short - if you are keeping your Outlander for any length of time - get a set of H&R springs - you wont regret it - and neither will your passengers.

I need a little help trying to identify or locate some of these wheels.

They are 14x6, 4 bolt and at least, originally found on the Dodge Conquest from 83 and 84 skinny body cars.

Does anyone know the part number and offset of these wheels?

Or a boneyard where I may find some in the midwest (I am in SE Michigan). - Need to find used and for less than refurbished price.

I need to get at minimum 6 of these for my Fire Arrow rally car before April 15th so I can use Dmack 186/65x14 inch rally tires in an upcoming event.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

What is the widest wheel that will fit a 1995 eclipse 8 or 8.5? No body kit or spacers

I recently bought a 2008 Lancer and when I bought it the guy threw in some lowering springs for the car. I am wondering if it is worth putting them in as the car already sits pretty low and I live in Edmonton (streets are horrible). Also, is it something I can do by myself or is it worth it to bring it in to get done?

I recently bought a 2008 Lancer and when I bought it the guy threw in some lowering springs for the car. I am wondering if it is worth putting them in as the car already sits pretty low and I live in Edmonton (streets are horrible). Also, is it something I can do by myself or is it worth it to bring it in to get done?

Has anyone else had a grinding like sand in shaft type noise from the front suspension on their Outlander? This is occuring on mine and noticable when entering a hard sloped drive way or a large speed bump when the suspension is caused to compress more than normal driving. Dealer has tried lubing the bushings to no evail - but if this were the cause it certainly wouldn't speak well of the suspension design considering Mitsubishi's prowess in off roading. Any other thoughts of feed back would be appreciated.

Found answers from east coast dealers covered in follow up post

Found my own answer - got dealer to remove the left strut to prove the mount bearing was shredded. Warrentee covered but they would not cover the right one until it crapped out. It is like pulling teeth to get Mitsubishi Canada to cough up on a warrentee claim.

Rotary Forged, what is that?

Rotary Forge is an advanced manufacturing process used to produce stronger and lighter weight cast wheels.

How does it work?

Wheel manufacturers cast the wheel with a narrow barrel. (as little as 4" wide). They then spin the wheel at a high speed, and at a high pressure, forge the barrel out to the desired width and shape.

What's the benefit?

This process alters the molecular structure and enhances the strength of the wheel. It also helps keep the wheels weight down when compared to traditional cast wheels. Most importantly, the weight savings is in the outer rim of the wheel which dramatically reduces rotational mass and enhances vehicle performance.

TSW has been using Rotary Forge technology to manufacture the Nurburgring and they are now using it to manufacture their New Interlagos as well. Those of you looking for a wheel upgrade that will help enhance the look and performance of your vehicle take a good look at these two options.

TSW Nurburging



Nurburgring weights according to TSW:

17x8 5x114.3 +35mm offset weighs approx. 18.75lbs.
18x8 5x114.3 +35mm offset weighs approx. 19.75lbs.
18x8.5 5x114.3 +45mm offset weighs approx. 19.5lbs
19x8 5x114.3 +35mm offset weighs approx. 20.75lbs
20x8.5 5-114.3 +40mm offset weighs approx. 23.25lbs

TSW Interlagos:


Interlagos estimated weights according to TSW (more will be available in the future):

17x8 5x114.3 +35mm offset weighs approx. 18.5lbs.
18x8 5x114.3 +35mm offset weighs approx. 19.5lbs.

For price and availability please call your local Discount Tire/ America's Tire. You can also find more information at www.tires.com or call Discount Tire Direct at 1.888.459.4080.

Hi.. i want my 2004 lancer sportback ralliart rear suspension lift. coz now its much lower than the front. can anyone have any suggestions what am i going to do? with a low-budget......... thanks.

I need to found out if the suspension has changed from 2002 to now. I was looking at KSport Srings and they couldn't tell me if they would fit my 2010 Lancer. They said all there info said was 2002 and up. Can anybody help me out?

Hello my dear colleagues.
As I found myself always looking for answers on this community for my problems and questions about which is the best mod for my car, what the result for that other people got for the same mod that I am willing to make, results made possible only by taking chances and spending time and money of their own pockets, it thing it is time to share back my experience with you guys. My bad experience, so you could have a chance not to go and make the same mistakes as I did buying BAD QUALITY products.
My car is an Mit EVO9 (other cars that I own : STI03, Civic TypeR, BMW E30 M3, Celica CS, Audi S3 1.8T, Dacia Logan CUP-race car) and some of my mods are : FP Green turbo, Deatschwerks injectors 750, ARC intake box and titanium intake pipe, HKS cams, HKS coilovers, Ralliart 18” wheels, and some other small parts.
Recently I wanted to improve the braking on my car and beside AP Racing 6pot 362mm kit (which I have on my STI for 3 years-12000km and I love them) and BREMBO GT 6pot 355mm kit I was also considering the Taiwan company called D2 which makes a massive 380mm 8 piston kit for the EVO.
2 things made me to make the wrong decision, the bigger diameter of the rotors, 380mm versus second best AP Racing 362mm, and the cheaper price compared to the AP and the Brembo kits, so I got the D2 brake kit. – STUPID MOVE
I know that this topic is not about me, but a short introduction will show people that I really don’t thing that the problems with the brakes comes from bad installing or abuse : I run in my country a tuning company called Superformance, dealer of SKN Tuning Gmbh since 2007, with some rally and hill climb activity in the last years : tech support in 2009 for hill climb national champion open category in an EVO6, and my personal race history running with 1.6 Dacia Logan : 2008 FIA GT Logan Cup first race winner and after disqualified due to engine modifications, second race second place, 2009 hill climb champion at 1.6 category .
My “race”car : http://bloganul.blogspot.com/2010/11/logan...tentean-de.html
About the FIA GT event: http://prorally.ro/net/index.php?option=co...4&Itemid=31
After installing the D2 380mm front brake kit I have made the brake in myself in a period of 450-500 km.
After the brake in was over I started to use the brakes with moderate to full pedal pressure in different conditions to see what I have paid for, first results where not impressive , not bad but somehow different than what I was expecting . Brake pedal travel was bigger/longer than before and with a somehow unnatural behavior, first part of pedal push was return less braking than expected and the next part was locking the tires pretty easy. I suppose this is normal, the pedal travel should be longer because of the increased fluid than goes in the bigger than stock caliper and tires look is due to the excessive 380mm size ! – So first lesson : for the street using normal street tires you do not need 380mm discs to stop an EVO.
The biggest problem came in the next 1500 km (all on the street, should have happened earlier on a track day or weekend), shacking under breaking become more and more obvious to a point the is nor pleasant or safe to drive the car anymore and stopping at a stop light the car will stop itself after releasing the brake pedal at 1 or 2 km/h and this means only one thing : pads are still touching(or even pushing) against the disc even when brake pressure is not applied !!
After checking the wheel and tire balancing TWICE (and i do have the receipts to prove it) which was perfect exactly as I imagined because I run on Ralliart RAYS forged 18”wheels and I always look after them, I put the car in the garage and make the next measurements which I also filmed to send to D2 but for no good because the answer was fast and clear – it is my fault, no warranty on brake discs.
I tried to explain that heat damage to the discs came from heat build up during roll on from the faulty calipers which do not release the pads from touching the disc but the answer was still the same – no warranty for the brake discs !!! STUPID ME FOR BUYING D2 !!
Same tests for both sides, left and right.
You can see in the movies that the calipers are expanding under pedal pressure, this is bad manly for the performance orientated customer how will want some feedback from the brake pedal ! Pressure is wasted in the bad design and probably bad material caliper instead of going to the pistons and so on to the pads !

LEFT D2 caliper expanding under pressure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEc29-ziWp8
RIGHT D2 caliper expanding under pressure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59Duap_A4iY
Here you can see that using a dynamometric wrench we could approximate the effort needed to turn ONLY the disc – 30 Nm to a side and 45 Nm to the other !!! This is EXTREME ! This D2 people wasted our hard earned horsepower !!
LEFT D2 rotor 45Nm to rotate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzVtv6CeVx8
RIGHT D2 rotor 30Nm to rotate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_5sjPRCrZk
And here you can see and imagine the shacking under braking !! discs are fucked up in less than 2000km, that is less than 1250 miles !!
LEFT D2 rotor moving left and right
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c2BEJ7sPOU
RIGHT D2 rotor moving left and right
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dglzqIseEE
LEFT D2 rotor moving up and down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Dybh2NyCA
RIGHT D2 rotor moving up and down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUbCSs9gHHY

So maybe I am unfortunate, or maybe I really do not know how to brake or use a set of brakes, or even both, but I will not come close to the D2 ever again. Anybody can make mistakes but not to take responsibility for your product is not Ok. Hope this helps.

I have a 2002 Mitsubishi Lancer OZ I bought about a year and half ago with 103k miles. A few days after buying it I lost control and hit a curb at about 40 or 50 miles approximately. The car was angled when it hit the curb and hit the front right wheel for sure, I'm not for sure about the left. The control arm on the front right wheel was bent to heck and the tire pushed back a few inches.

I took it to a local shop and he replaced the control arm, that was it. I drove it and it had a noticeable rattle coming from the front right wheel. It seemed really noticeable whenever I would hit bumps etc. It sounded to me like the sway arm linkage was vibrating up and down or something but I checked it out and that wasnt it. Also, the alignment was out. It wasn't too bad so I drove it until about 120,000 miles.

At that time the front right axle failed and I had to replace it. I'm not for sure if its called the CV joint or something along those lines, but the bearings in the rubber boot area of the axle could be moved around by hand.

So I continued to drive the car after replacing the axle and the rattle continued from the front right wheel. I noticed a slapping/rattling beginning from the front left wheel, during a 4,000 mile trip to NYC and back. The car now has 135,000 miles and the slapping/rattling coming from the front left wheel is very loud and it sound s like my wheel is about to fall off. I can't really tell when it does it, at slow speeds it isnt very evident, but on the highway it really starts to rattle. Its most noticeable at high speeds at the highway and is pretty constant. I have the car jacked up and I'm trying to wiggle everything around to see where its coming from and I can't figure it out. The only thing that has ANY play on it at all is the axle and that just moved back and forth barely.

I did, however, notice a "clunking" noise when I spin the rotor with the wheel off the tire. It sounds like its coming from the bottom end of the engine I tried to take a video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtudARI37Go

Do you guys think this is normal or is this the problem? I tried to take a video in the car as well getting on the highway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI7p53f6-qs

Thanks for any help guys!
-Michael

this is more directed to someone who is both a) crazy enough to have tried this and B)living where you actually see snow(im not talkin the 2 inches you get in az and such).
pretty much i was cleanin out the garage, and noticed the guy who lived here had two fifteen inchh wheels. personally id love to use these in the snowy climate andkeep at least 2 of my wheels looking kinda nice.
only problem is i have sixteen inch wheels, if the bolt pattern is the same, could I put these on the my front wheels with snow tires but ad approximately 20 mm to the sidewall hight, hence use skinnier tires which is better for snow? or is this one of them times when i am being very stupid?

ok, my eclipse is comin up on a pad replacement, its a 98 and if there are any suggestions on brands and such ill be more than happy to listen.
I know that they are bakes, and i shouldnt skimp, but i dont want to pay upwards of fifty bucks for two wheels, and never put enough stress on them to need it.
more importantly*and why this isnt in the eclipse forum* a general question about pads.
I have heard, but cannot confirm, that pads witha lifetime warrenty are made with metal dust.
This is supposeed to make them wear slower, but eats at rotors faster so in effect your brakes do last forever, but your changing rotors frequently.
Is there any validity to this, or am I blowing steam?

I have a 2010 Lancer, Im trying to find Pink rims for it. Does anyone know where i can get them?

I just put 235/40/18's on our 04 GS Eclipse. What tire pressures do you guys recommend when going to 18 inch tires?

G'day,
Can anyone please tell me how to remove the rear brake discs on my 1997 Magna 3.0 V6 wagon? The fronts were nice and easy but I can't figure out how to loosen the rears. I've been told different things by different people.
Has anyone done it on the same model? Can anyone help...?
Cheers,
SB

Greetings,

I desperately need control arm Suspension Bushes for a Mitsubishi L300 4wd Van.

The bushes required are the Inner - Upper and Lower, Front and Rear control
arm bushes, a total of 8 bushes.

The vehicle is a 1992 SH series Mitsubishi L300 4WD Van.
VIN: JMF SH3V 38NJ 008613

I can get plastic but I want rubber.

RBI in Thailand make them but will not sell to end users.

To get Mitsubishi genuine I have to part with my soul and first born (and MITS only sell the uppers with the control arm)

I am desperate as rego expires in 5 days and cannot get RWC without fixing the bushes.

HELP!

Greg
Darwin, Australia

i dont know wut offset fits my 95 eclipse. i'm about to buy a set of four 16"x7.5" Mille Miglia rims for $80. The seller says the offset is around 35-45, they came off an 87 supra. I was just wondering if the rims are in that offset range will they fit? and when i can post the ACTUAL offset if someone can tell me what tire size to run without rubbing or f-ing my speedometer. any input would be MUCH appreciated seeing as i'm getting the rims tomorow afternoon. i need rims and tires ASAP! thnx

Hey guys, exams are almost up and I was wondering...
Got this awesome Mitsubishi Lancer 2005 a couple months ago and it turns out that the old owner had the tire rotation markings on the rim-side of the tire, visual from a normal bystander's point of view...

Is there any way to remove that marking, whether it was chalk or marker? I don't really know which one they used, there's just some white/grey markings on the tires that persisted after putting tire-foam to try and remove it...

Any ideas?
Is baking soda and scrubbing a good idea?

Thanks!

Hi all, I'm new to the forum and have a rather unusual situation I could use your help with.

In Nov.2008 I bought a new left-hand-drive Mitsubishi Colt 1.3 CZ2 in Belgium. The car was driven to the UK where I got it registered and have been driving it since (if you're asking why buy a LHD to use in the UK it's a really long story!)

The problem is that the vehicle veers to the left. All the time. It's much worse on the motorway where you have to hold the wheel firmly or the car will end up on the hard shoulder. There are no other symptoms, it doesn't vibrate or make noises and it's not worse on braking. It just the same constantly.

I took it to the local Mitsu dealer twice. The first time they said it was a wheel alignment issue. They sent me to an independent garage where they could not find any alignment problems. When I told the Mitsu dealer they said that they were sure it was an alignment issue and to get it checked again. I went to a different garage where they confirmed the alignment was spot on but their checks could not identify any other problems either. I swapped the left and right wheels just in case but still no luck.

Eventually I returned to the dealer for a further check and after testing the steering and measuring the suspension they concluded that the left side sits 10mm lower than the right. They said that this is deliberate to compensate for road sloping to the right in LHD countries, but since the car is in the UK and roads have the opposite slope, the effect is actually exaggerated hence the veering.

Their explanation makes sense but what bugs me is that I've had a LHD Peugeot 307 for 7 years in the UK and now my other car is a LHD VW Passat and none of them has ever veered to either side.

Do Mitsubishi set their cars up differently? Is it because the car is much lighter (flimsy I'd say...) that the veering is much more obvious?

Has anyone come across anything similar?


Thanks for your help,

George

I have 18x8.5 wheels on my car. The tires that i have are 245/55. Does anyone know if it is possible to do a 225/55 or a 215/55 on thoes wheels?

i need a set for an 03 lancer.. not looking for quality, just need something to last maybe a month or two until i get my bbs knockoffs. looking somewhere in the range of 100$ for the set (i told you i wasnt looking for quality! ) just feelin around, let me know what the word is. thanks guys!

I don't know if anyone realized or not but Discount Tire has joined our site.


I personally have bought all of my tires from them and have ALWAYS been happy with their customer service.

Welcome aboard Discount Tire!


~Eric

I am running my 98 eclipes on some "barum" 205-55-16r
The tire calls for 51psi, is this right, every other tire ive ever seen or used calls for about 30-35psi


I know even by my standards im running low pressure right now so i will put air in them before i even try to drive, i was just wondering if i should use 51psi

I have a 97 eclipse that is making loud popping noises when ever I turn the wheel or go over large bumps I have replaced the CV axels, the lower ball joints, and the tie rod ends on both sides and the noise is still their. I m having a hard time finding the source of the noise becouse i can't duplicate the sound when the car is parked or in the air. Any ideas or suggestions, Thanks.

I need to replace at least two tires, and one rim on my eclipse. Its kind of sad right now. I have three 18" rims (though only two are actually on the car at the moment), and two that I think are 16. I know nothing about tire size or anything like that.

I'm going with my BIL to pick-a-part tomorrow to hopefully pick up some new (used) wheels. I don't care for the 18" wheels. I wouldn't mind driving my car just stock, its not like I'm trying to show it off or impress anyone, and I don't want it to look like I am. I'm less concerned about having matching rims (though that is a somewhat deciding factor, but at this point, i just want something i can drive on), i just want them to all be the same size.

I think I'm looking for 16"s. I'd like to find stock rims, but not sure how likely it is that i will. I know I need 5 lug, But what about all those other numbers on tires? What numbers should I be looking for to fit on my car? I don't want anything too big or too small. I suppose if we can pull them off of another eclipse, it should be okay, but otherwise, how do I know? I am a complete moron here, and if I wanted to just stick with the 18" rims, I'd just look for numbers matching the ones I already have.

So I'd really appreciate if someone could tell me what numbers to look for, and a dumbed down explanation of what those numbers mean would be awesome.

our 2000 galant es needs the entire rear suspention rebushed ..... does anyone know where we can get just the bushings or are we stuck buying complete assemblys..Thanks all

Hi
I own a 2001 SWB Shogun Pinin 5 Stud with Steel wheels and Trims, can anyone tell me what or indeed if any alternative vehicle stud patterns will fit as i am unable to find some original Pinin wheels, I have scoured the net to find the Technical specs for the wheel and a Workshop manual without success

Your help is apprecited

Regards

Paul

hey i have recently purchased a full tikico suspension struts with springs combo from perfromancepsi.com on there website it says that the new suspension will lower my car 1.5 inches, i have already purchased front strut bar and new poly bushing set , is the 1.5 drop enough to make me need a front and rear camber kit, i already am going to get a alaignment after the install to adjust the toe im just wondering if i will need a front or rear camber kit or both. and if there is anything else i am missing to complete my suspension on my 98 spyder please inform me

Has anyone changed the Pads and/or Discs on a 2000 'X' Reg Mitsubishi Carisma?

I have conflicting info as to whether you have to have a spinning tool to push the piston back into the caliper or that the pistons can just be pushed back?

Also, if i'm just changing the Pads and Discs and hang the caliper up on something, i do not need to bleed the braking system?

Cheers

Darrel

Springs with the description for a GS-T, GSX, and TSI eagle talon. will they fit a FWD GS? I know the GS-T and TSI's are FWD but the GSX are not.

I purchased a set BC coilovers on May 2008 and installed the kit in my car . I only drive my car for daily work, and have put it approximately 4000 miles.

I drove my car on highway with my family last Sunday, all of a sudden, I had this happen to me after the car was out of control (see the attached images).

Holly shit, it was ridiculous!! The product is a crap, I am going to sue this company for this ‘shit’ product.

hi!

i recently purchased these coil over springs for my 99' galant (just springs):

http://img.alibaba.com/photo/11501150/Adju...op_Lift_Kit.jpg

There were no included instructions, not even letting me know what springs are for the rear or front. these are much skinnyer than my stock springs and shorter too. can these springs be used on my stock struts? i know how to take off the struts and put them back on so installation is not a prob but i just want to know if these can work with my stock shock struts or do i need to buy different accesories? i just dont want to screw up the car or get hurt. thank you!

So i purchased some MSR wheels and installed them on my car today. Everything was going perfect till i installed the front right wheel. The center cap just popped out and dosent go back on the rim. I tried switching the back wheel to the front and it still pops out. So i know its not the wheels or center caps but i have no clue why the right side popped out. If anyone knows please help me out... Thanks

I have been looking, They both have the same bolt pattern. The lancer i think has a smaller offset, But I cant figure out how that really works. Thanks for any help.

Ok, so I've asked a lot of engine related questions over the nearly a year since joining the forum. But I really haven't spent all that much time trying to learn about modifying my suspension. So I'm going to just ask some questions and hope for the random free-for-all of answers to be useful. :-)

- What is the difference between lowering springs and coilovers?
- When a set of springs gives a number of inches, is that the amount lower the car is getting or the height off the ground the car will be?
- What is the purpose of a "performance" tie bar?
- What is the point of a rear strut bar on a FWD vehicle?
- What are sway bars for, and how do they affect performance?
- What is the difference between slotted, drilled and slotted, and regular rotors for disc brakes?
- Is there such a thing as a performance drum brake?
- What is a dampner kit for?
- What is camber exactly?

I admit to KIND OF knowing the answers to a lot of those questions, but I want to see what a more experienced person will answer with. I've also read about a lot of it on Wikipedia, and it didn't all sink in/make sense, so please don't just be all, "GO READ WIKIPEDIA LOLOL".

Thanks!
- Sam

Just had an accident and cracked a rim and ruined another. I have a set of 16" chrome wheels off a 98 spyder gst and wanted to know if they would work. Thanks in advance.

does anyone know where I can find just the center caps for these rims?????? Its driving me crazy!... next rims web page

Starting Monday December 8th, Discount Tire Co., Americas Tire Co., and Discount Tire Direct will be offering an instant savings of $50.00 on a set of select tires and any 4 wheels. If you decide you want both wheels and tires, we will take $100.00 off the top of your order instantly! Click the link below for more details.

Details:Cyber Monday Part Deux

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2) You'll also need an active Microsoft live.com account (if you already have a Hotmail or MSN email account you already have a live.com account, you may need to set up your cashback account if you haven't already). These accounts are free.

Here's how you get your savings:
1) Go to live.com. In the search bar type in WHEELS. Even if you are not searching for wheels, type it in. You can change what you are looking for in a few steps.
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5) Click the Discount Tire Direct store link. Now you can browse items within our store.
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For more information on this special savings, click the link below. It will tell you how live.com defines a session.
Details:eBay Terms for Live Search Cashback Rewards

is any one running staggered rims? i have a 95 gst and i was wondering what it looks like. i know it may be silly since i only have a fwd car but i was wondering how cool it looks. i am going to buy a set of 18" rim for my 2g. i was wondering how wide of a rim i can run without rubbing issues?


thanks

i picked up a set of adjustable springs and some new struts cause my rear ones were blown form the po. me and a buddy spent 3 hours tryin to get the the front one off and it was like f u. we couldn't get the shock out cause it was stock on the bottom mount and the mount wouldn't go low enough to let the shock out at all. so is there a diy somewhere? thats one thing i can't find on this site.....

can anyone tell me the ideal mag wheel measurement. im currently using a 205/65/15 tires. i have a 4 stud

Ok, well i want to drop it a little bit just like a inch or 1.5 or something. But you cant just turn it to lower it and they dont make a kit for it....that i can find. And i really dont want to cut the springs and make it rattle and shake like crazy. So can anyone give me some advice??

taking offers if you want a pic just msg me or email me at s1rad@hotmail.com
and I have 2 headlight assembly for a 95 eclipse passanger side


also selling a 01 GTP Super Charger with throttle body

Thanks,
steve

Just wanting to know how low would you be able to drop a G3 Spyder 01 GT with a set of 17's, without any rubbing or what not? Thank You