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I'm having a nasty "stumble" issue with my Mitsubishi Legnum (Galant) ST25. I'm going to write the whole thing up as completely as possible, because I've seen on these forums that there are some really sharp guys, and I don't want to waste anyone's time by giving incomplete information. So, forgive me for the massive post, but I think by telling you everything I have tried, and the full history, we can hopefully avoid wasting your time asking me for more info!
I'm in New Zealand, and this is a Japanese-imported one (New Zealand has a peculiarity where we buy all of Japan's 2nd-hand castoffs, I only mention this to delineate it from being a NZ-new Galant, which I think would have VIN plate model code EA5W). VIN Plate states model as EC5W, engine is 6A13 - 2.5L V6, naturally aspirated, 4 wheel drive, station wagon, auto transmission. According to the sharpie writing in the engine bay, the timing belt was replaced about 50,000 km ago (service interval for this is 100,000km, I believe). Note: Unlike US models of Galant, this one has no EGR, no purge system, no barometric pressure sensor, and no rear O2 sensor. The MAF connector has no wiring for the baro sensor (pins 1 & 2), and the exhaust system has a solid block where there'd normally be a threaded hole for the rear O2 sensor. I've checked another NZ-new Galant (same engine, etc) and it had the same lack of MAF sensor pins 1&2, and lack of EGR valve or purge valve. Just establishing a baseline of info before I dive in with symptoms.
Symptoms: can be divided into two sets of symptoms:
Symptom #1: Difficult to accelerate, i.e. whilst driving along at urban speed (50 km/h), if you floor it, the engine stumbles - the RPMs do not increase, and it occasionally backfires (it sounds like a backfire, but not the 1970s kind of "bang!", more of a sudden "Pfft!" that sounds confined in a chamber (i.e. the intake manifold/plenum, or the exhaust manifold)). The engine note changes to sound throatier as the throttle is opened wide, but the engine cannot increase RPMs. In terms of feeling, the car doesn't really slow down or speed up - it just stays the same, and it jerks a bit (and sometimes will buck). If you lessen off the gas pedal, the engine usually suddenly "catches" and starts generating power. The car is drivable if you don't accelerate too hard. You can reproduce the problem also if the car is stopped, in neutral, and idling - simply open the throttle wide open - it'll stay stumbling for as long as you hold WOT. The engine will stumble away indefinitely, it will never rev up, or down, or stall, if you keep WOT.
If you observe a MUT-II diagnostic readout while the engine is stumbling, the oxygen sensor voltage drops quite low (below 100mV) - this suggests lean running, but you can also see low a O2 voltage during misfire conditions due to unburnt air/fuel mixture. Also, during the engine stumble, injector drive time increases to 17ms. If you are driving along at constant speed, and you observe the injector drive times as you slowly increase throttle openings, the stumble issue kicks in at around 13-14ms injector drive time values. (as said earlier, I can easily get the car up to 70-80mph / 100-130km/h if I manually manipulate the A/T gears to keep my RPMs above 3000, and don't push the pedal into the "stumble" zone). It's hard to find much info online about what a "normal" injector duty cycle is, but from what I can see, anything higher than 20ms is virtually impossible because at higher RPMs, you rarely have 20ms for a full revolution (at 3000RPM, 1 revolution is 10ms). This suggests that my engine's got a lean-running problem, the ECU is trying to fix this with ridiculously high injector opening times. With my foot flat to the floor, in full stumble mode, at 60mph, the injector drive times hit 17-18ms.
Symptom #2: rough idle. It idles normally when first started from absolute cold (i.e. about 10 degrees Celsius (50F). But as the engine warms up, the engine occasionally misses. The interval seems pretty random, but it's generally every 1-3 seconds that it misses. The engine originally had a slight occasional misfire at idle, but I think it got worse after I removed the TB and plenum to change the rear bank spark plugs and ignition leads, but bear in mind that the full roughness of the idle only shows up when the engine is absolutely, completely, fully hot. So what I'm saying is, the rough idle may have deteriorated, or it may just be that I initially wasn't keeping the engine running much longer than 10 minutes when I was testing this. I know you're probably thinking I introduced vacuum leaks when I removed the TB and plenum, and I'm not discounting that, but I'm pretty sure I've eliminated that. (read on!)
History: Car worked fine when I bought it 2 months ago, other than slightly crappy gas mileage (about 15-16mpg). There was one weekend here (Wellington, NZ) where we had gale force winds and rain that was pretty much being swirled in every direction, i.e. up, down, in circles, etc. I didn't drive the car all weekend. On Monday, it wasn't running properly. It was running slightly rough (rhythmically) all the time, like a cylinder wasn't firing, but felt better at higher RPMs i.e. 4000 rpm. I threw a bottle of injector cleaner into the gas tank and it didn't help at all. The next day I woke up and realised the 4000rpm thing wasn't really better, it was just less obvious that a cylinder was missing, when running at higher RPMs. It was probably an ignition issue. I pulled ignition leads off on the front cylinder bank one at a time, until I got to cylinder #4 and found that it didn't get any worse on cyl #4, so I'd found my bad ignition lead. Checked it at the distributor cap end and found that someone had pushed the connector on in such a way that it got pushed up inside the boot, so it wasn't making very good contact, if at all. The connection hole in the distributor cap had loads of white crust in it. I gently pulled the ignition connector out of the boot, but after that I was getting no spark at all, i.e. the problem worsened. I did the screwdriver test (stick a phillips/pozi screwdriver into the spark-plug end of the ignition lead, hold it by the handle, and hold the shaft 5mm away from a grounded part of the engine or chassis, to observe the the spark). There was no spark at all. Diagnosis - dead ignition lead. Bought a new set of ignition leads, boom, problem solved, car idled smoothly. Changed front bank plugs at the same time. Auto parts store saw the the old plugs were PFR6G-11s (long life platinums) and told me I didn't need expensive long-lifes in the front bank, only the rear bank. So I put the normal plugs in the front bank (same heat rating, same spec, just not platinum), so at this stage I had new plugs in cylinders 2, 4 and 6, and a new ignition lead on cyl 4. BTW, the plug for cyl #4 was a bit dark/sooty, but not irreversibly so, i.e. you could burn that crap off if you went for a long drive. I believe the plug was sooty because if that connector on the distributor wasn't making proper contact then the spark in the #4 cylinder would have been weak. It makes sense that the #4 plug was a bit sooty. Anyway so I figured what the heck, might as well put new plugs in, this is an old 2nd hand car with no service history, and I'd rather have a clean slate. Couldn't be bothered doing the #2 and #6 ignition leads in the auto store car park so I drove home. Wow, had so much more power, it was great. I did however notice that at any RPM level below 1350 RPM, the engine would stumble if the throttle was opened suddenly. Once the engine climbed above 1350 RPM, it was OK though. I eventually swapped out the other front-bank ignition leads (#2 and #6), so the front bank now had all new plugs and leads.
Re: the wet weekend, the only thing I can think of that I may have done to induce this, was the day before the big storm arrived, I had my first good long look under the hood, and from vague memory I would have just touched a bunch of stuff like connectors, etc. I wouldn't have pushed/pulled anything hard, I just would have been tracing my way around the engine, i.e. getting to know it. But I reckon that's what pushed the #4 ignition lead over the edge on the Monday when I started seeing #4-miss problems. I mention this because it's possible that my innocent "touching" of things under the hood may have triggered the 'stumble' issue, which is the issue I'm now trying to solve. It's always worth knowing "what were you doing before this problem started?".
Things I have tried/tested:
1. Bought a MUT-II style analyser (Mitsubishi didn't go OBD-II on their NZ/Japanese cars until after 2003). No trouble codes are showing at all. There were some historical ones from me messing with connectors etc, so I cleared those, and nothing has reappeared since (and I've been working on this problem for 3-4 weeks now). (Also I should mention, the engine check light never lit - eventually I realised I'd never ever seen it switch on, and pulled out the instrument cluster and found the bulb was blown - replaced, and except for the 5 seconds that it comes on when you switch the key to ON, the light does not stay on).
2. Upstream O2 sensor appears to be working correctly - after engine warm-up, the MUT-II shows the O2 sensor cycling from around 0.1V, to values around 0.8V. If I coast down a hill while locked into 1st, the voltage drops to zero. If I accelerate gently, I see a higher value. If I'm holding it at highway speeds (no stumble) it cycles. This suggests the O2 sensor is OK - according to the Mitsubishi workshop manual, this passes their test of being OK. I also tested the resistance and power supply to the sensor and it reads as per spec. Also bear in mind, you'd expect the ECU to throw a trouble-code if the sensor was faulty.
3. Removed distributor cap and completely cleaned out the #4 connector using electrical contact-cleaning spray, and used a (plastic-based) pot-scrub to get any oxidised coating off it. The purpose of this was to establish whether the cap was still usable, or if I needed to replace it. I managed to get it decently shiny like the other terminals, and inserting/removing the #4 ignition lead left a decent scratch mark in the cap's connection socket, so I decided it was making good contact.
4. New air filter, oil filter, oil change, flushed cooling system with flush additive for a couple of days, then re-drained, refilled with anti-freeze added.
5. Tested throttle position sensor in two ways: (1) observe MUT-II live data display while pushing on the gas pedal. (2) hook up analog ohm-meter and observe needle movement while operating the throttle valve by hand. Result: looks OK, although I noticed that at very very small throttle openings, there is sometimes a 'twitch' in the ohm-meter needle where the resistance increases (instead of decreasing as you open the throttle). However, this is at *tiny* throttle openings, whereas my accelerator stumble issue only happens when you push down on the gas pedal to much larger openings. I do not believe this is causing the issue, and I could only get it to behave this way when I had the throttle-body on the bench, opening the TB valve by hand by tiny amounts. In normal driving, even if driving gently, I would give the accelerator pedal a push that would move it way past this point, so I believe it's not relevant to this issue.
6: tested that the idle position switch is working, in the same two ways: MUT-II idle-position is ON at idle, goes OFF as you touch the gas pedal. Ditto with a volt meter. Mitsubishi workshop manual says you should see "continuity" across the IPS terminals when at idle, but I see it change from open-line (non-idle) to 100 ohms (idle). I initially thought this was a problem, but given that the MUT-II shows the ECU saying "IDLE: ON" at idle, I do not think this is a problem.
7: Idle control servo - am unsure about this. It makes noise, but sometimes when I'm working under the hood (engine off) and have the ignition key to ON, after a minute or two the ISC servo makes the most spastic spurt of noises. Have measured resistance values as per Mitsi workshop manual and they read fine. Tried to test it like the workshop manual suggests (supply 6V to various connection pins, looking for 'vibration' in the motor.) I only had a 5V supply available, and I would get a slight movement in the servo in some cases. Was a pretty hard thing to test though, to be honest. Look, given that I could turn on the A/C and the idle adjusted accordingly, and given that the engine starts cold at about 1300RPM then gradually reduces its idle when warmed up to the proper 650-750 range, I think the servo is working OK. But I haven't ruled this out as a possible cause of the rough idle. In terms of the stumble tho, even if the idle bypass valve was stuck wide open, this is metered air we're talking about, it's passed through the MAF sensor, just like proper idle-valve operation, and if you think about it, if the throttle was wide open, the bypass valve has absolutely no effect, it's just designed to let air pass from the outside of the butterfly valve to the inside. (that's my thinking, anyway - feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong). Also I just pulled the ISC servo plug and took it for a drive just for the hell of it - it made no difference. If anything it makes it worse because lack of ISC servo made it idle high (2000 rpm), which meant whilst stopped with the transmission in D or R, the engine was already in stumble-land.
8: ohm-tested the air temp sensor. It reads correctly at room temperature, and I also tried breathing on it and holding it under a fan heater. It does vary its resistance like it's supposed to. That said, the MUT-II data-stream sometimes shows it hotter than it really is, i.e. it's only about 16 degrees C today but it was reading 30-40 C when I was driving home today. I'm assuming this is because of the heat in the engine-bay...
9: Coolant temperature sensor: observed MUT-II data stream after starting the engine, to observe that the temp reading rises gradually to full temp (about 85-90 deg C).
10: Starting to think towards a fuel delivery issue, I replaced the fuel filter with a new one. Made absolutely no difference.
11: One day I just pulled the MAF sensor connector off to see what happened. The engine idle RPMs rose to 2000rpm as you'd expect, the engine light came on, and the problem went away entirely. The car wasn't very driveable though, because a missing MAF sensor causes the ECU to go back to default ignition timing, fuel mapping etc and this prevents the automatic retarding of ignition during automatic transmission gear changes - my engine RPMs would rise up to 4000RPM during gear changes. Also, this didn't prove that the problem was a bad MAF sensor, because of the way the ECU compensates by using "default" timing/fuel settings when the sensor is disconnected. I.e. was this a bad sensor, or did the ECU's compensation behaviour merely mask the real problem i.e. by switching to a default rich mixture, etc?
12: I've measured the frequency/Hz reading of the air-flow/MAF sensor and seems to be acting 'sensibly', i.e. 28-34Hz at idle, and increases to 100-ish Hz when WOT. But without an oscilloscope I can't look at the actual square-wave and determine whether the signal is really giving proper readings. The ECU will only throw a trouble-code if it detects less than 3 Hz signal, so if the MAF wasn't actually reading accurately at big throttle openings, then this would explain the issue. A faulty or blocked MAF would *SO* explain this issue, i.e. you floor the pedal and the engine has no idea what the airflow is, so it doesn't know to meter enough fuel. But my swap-out of the MAF sensor with the one at the wrecking yard (which was driven last week, the driver said it ran just fine), in theory eliminates that one - unless I should have done an ECU reset after I swapped in the 'new' MAF sensor? (oh god, I hope I wasn't supposed to reset the ECU... otherwise maybe I should go back and try that MAF sensor again...)
12B: I cleaned the MAF. I know, I know, Karman Vortex MAFs shouldn't be spray-cleaned. I read a lot of forum posts from Evo drivers saying they used CRC Sensor Cleaner and had no issues, and posts from people saying "nooo! don't do it!!", but I read way more posts from people saying Electrical Contact Cleaner spray was OK. So I have liberally spray-cleaned it using some of that. Lower down in the post you'll see that I also tried swapping in a MAF from another 6A13 Galant engine - so even if I'd screwed my MAF, this swapped out one should have 'fixed' that.
13: Removed the intake plenum so I could install new spark plugs in the rear cylinder bank, and also install new ignition leads. While I was at it, I used a dental tool and a plastic abrasive pot-scrub to remove the small bits of encrusted white buildup on the inside of the distributor cap's arc contacts. Nothing major, no major erosion in the contacts that I'd be concerned about. Polished up the rotor arm. Checked the centre spring-loaded carbon contact in the cap - spring is OK, contact doesnt look excessively worn. Distributor cap looks surprisingly clean and in great condition - I would guess that a previous owner might have had it replaced less than a year ago. Ohms-tested the primary and secondary sides of the ignition coil as per mitsi manual recommendations - all resistance values were within spec, although I noticed the secondary coil resistance reading takes a while to stabilise on the meter - it sinks gradually until it lands within the allowable values stated by Mitsubishi. I figured that this is an electrical property i.e. any current you pass through the coil will energise it.
14: Since I had to remove the TB to remove the plenum, I put it on the bench and cleaned it really well with CRC throttle body cleaner. I tried to unscrew the chamber that the water hoses go into, but I actually broke one of my phillips screwdrivers - those screws are so tight that even half my body-weight on the screwdriver and max wrist torque applied, resulted in the screwdriver head starting to burr the screwhead. Shame, as the water that seeped out of those pipes looked pretty rusty and gross, and I was damn curious to see WTF the water flow is for! Is it just to heat the bypass air a bit? Or does the coolant water temp control something inside the TB? I installed the plenum with a brand new plenum gasket, (after doing a huge amount of scraping to remove old gasket and the gasket-goo that some previous mechanic had used). Torqued as per mitsi manual. Couldn't find the TB gasket (and didn't have a new one available) so I used silicone gasket goo (was in a hurry, it was getting dark, etc). Idle seemed to be worse after this, and to be honest, I wasn't surprised, as I figured my gasket goo was probably doing a crappy job.
15: Replaced the fuel pump last night. I think this actually helped a bit, I was able to get a bit more acceleration, but only at RPMs above 3000 rpm. But the car is still very very hard to get moving when fully stopped - I have to coax it (jerking and puttering) gently to a point where it's doing a few km/h then it starts to get moving - and I have to lock it in 1st gear, otherwise when it kicks into 2nd, the problem will come back. I can still make it stumble if I push the gas pedal hard (not necessarily to the floor), but I can definitely get surges of acceleration out of it that I could not get before (at >3000rpm). So the problem definition now would be, "bloody difficult to get anything out of it <1500rpm, can get it up to 100-120km/h if I manipulate gears to stay above ~3000rpm and don't push the pedal down too hard, but can still induce stumble by pushing it too hard". So, the problem is proportional to two variables - engine RPM and throttle opening. lower RPM = worse problem. wider throttle opening = worse problem. All the fuel pump change seems to have done is increase how much throttle I can use before it starts stumbling.
16: bought a new TB gasket today and installed it. No change to the idle roughness when warm.
17: Went to an auto mechanic today and got them to do a fuel pressure test. They hooked their gauge up between the fuel pump outlet and the fuel filter inlet - this should be OK I think, as the mitsi workshop manual tells you to hook the gauge up between the delivery pipe and the fuel rail. BUT one thing this wouldn't prove is whether I have a blockage in my fuel line, I guess. If it was hooked up as per Mitsi's specs, we'd be measuring the same pressure that the fuel rail sees. Luckily my fuel filter is only 2 weeks old, so I don't think it would matter much. Anyway, the readings we got: at idle we saw 40psi (275 kPa, which is per Mitsi workshop manual's spec for idle fuel pressure). Clamping the fuel pressure regulator vacuum hose, we saw it increase to 50psi (344 kPa, again, this is per Mitsi spec). Mechanic attached a vacuum generator to the fuel pressure reg vacuum hose and was able to apply vacuum then remove vacuum while I watched the gauge - it changed from 40 to 50 and back to 40 as he applied vacuum then released it. We just wanted to prove that the pressure regulator was working both ways and not stuck open or closed. Revving the engine appeared to cause no dip (although I'm sorry, really sorry, but my memory of that bit is vague for some reason - the mechanic was in a huge hurry to me in, and I didn't have time to think straight - that said, I *WOULD* have remembered if the pressure had dipped badly with big throttle openings / WOT, as that was what I was "hoping" for, as it would have proved my theory about the pressure regulator, and would have been a eureka moment).
18: Went to an auto-wrecker today and pulled a MAF sensor out of another Galant with a 6A13 engine, and installed it on mine. It made absolutely no difference. Put my one back in after a quick drive up the street to confirm.
19: At the same auto-wrecker, we pulled a fuel pressure regulator out of the same Galant (which the wrecker had bought a week earlier, and said it drove really well) - no difference. I actually left it installed, as neither of us could be bothered swapping it back out with my original one, as it was nearly 5pm on a Friday ...
20: pulled the ISC servo plug out today then drove it for a bit - oddly, this time it made no difference at all to the idle. It stayed at ~700rpm. I only mention this because it's different to what I experienced in step 7.
21: curious about vacuum leaks causing the idle issue, today I replaced every single vacuum hose (and a few non-vacuum hoses). For clarity, these were: power-steering vacuum valve hoses (on both ends of the steel pipes that run parallel to the front fuel rail); PCV hose; rear-bank rocker-cover hose; fuel pressure regulator vacuum hose; the little vapour hose that goes from the top of the TB to bracket on the TB (this hose goes to the vapour chamber mounted on the engine-bay firewall, but I couldn't change this hose as it has some kind of in-line vapour-lock thingy or valve -the hose looks like it's in good condition though). Made sure every vacuum hose was pushed on tight and was a good fit. None of this improved either of my issues.
22: checked injector sound using a screwdriver as a stethoscope. They're making a clicking sound - this is the first time I've used that trick, so I don't know what to listen for, but the clicking is regular and consistent. The rear bank injectors were tricky but I used a gooseneck flexible-drive attachment for my power drill so I could still make contact with the injectors under the plenum. Same noise from the rear injectors. Besides, one duff injector would not manifest the way this stumble problem does.
23: There's a MUT-II value which doesn't change like the workshop manual says it should. It's called "Air flow sensor reset signal". It should apparently be on 0-1V at engine idle, and 6-9V at 3000 rpm. On the MUT-II it simply says "OFF' and presumably should say "ON" at >3000 rpm. I don't know what this signal does, but it doesn't change for me. Could this be significant?
So that pretty much covers every diagnostic step that the Mitsubishi workshop manual suggests, EXCEPT:
"Check the ignition timing". I don't have a timing light, so I couldn't really do this. But I'll fork out the $100 for one (or get an auto mechanic to do it for me), if you think that's important. What I have done, however, is observe timing values via the MUT-II data display, and also used the MUT-II actuator menu to switch timing to fixed 5 deg BTDC mode. I drove it (for 100 yards) and it made no diff so I switched back to regular timing mode. Note that the MUT-II only tells me what the ECU *thinks* it's doing, but I'd have thought there's not much between ECU and coil-primary that could screw up ignition in such a consistent repeatable way.
"Check ignition coil" - as stated earlier, I cannot verify whether it's generating enough HV, or what the spark curve looks like on a scope. I have however checked it according to Mitsubishi's workshop manual, i.e. check resistance across primary and secondary coils.
"Check compression pressure" - I don't have a compression tester, and I felt this issue couldn't possibly be about compression, surely??? My engine doesn't blow oil smoke and I've done the engine-brake-downhill-for-a-mile-then-floor-the-gas-pedal test for worn piston-rings - no smoke. There's a fair bit of blow-by that comes out of the front-bank rocker cover if you pull the PCV valve out, I don't know if that's normal or not. I've been meaning to try driving with the PCV hose blocked/clamped, just as a clutching-at-straws kinda idea.
"Check fuel line and filter for clogging." As mentioned, I installed a new fuel filter last week and it made no improvement at all. That said, if my fuel tank was really, really contaminated by some douchebag putting sugar in the tank or something, then I guess the new filter could get ruined pretty quickly. Also note: when I replaced my fuel pump, I shone a torch into the fuel tank (it was 1/4 full - this tank has no drain plug!) and could see tiny particles of brass (or gold?) in the bottom of the tank. WTF? Made me wonder where on earth that came from - my old pump tearing itself apart? A gas station with failing pumps? My fuel filter would block all of that and a magnet wouldn't pick any of it up (gold or brass are both non-magnetic). Couldn't see any water hiding under the fuel in my tank, it looked a bit cloudy though, not clear. Nothing I can do about it - no drain plug.
So, I'm pretty baffled and frustrated. I'd already scoured these forums for answers over the last few weeks, and I can see there are some really sharp Mitsi guys on here, which is why I've finally decided I had to write a post and get some outside suggestions. Here are some things people have suggested to me:
take the top cam-belt covers off and verify that the TDC marks line up correctly when the crankshaft pulley is at TDC, just in case there's a tensioner problem, or in case the last guy who changed the cam belt maybe screwed up (the mechanic who suggested this idea to me said that sometimes the little keyway that locates the crank pulley, gets loose, so you end up with slack in your camshaft timing, which would obviously screw up your engine timing). I personally feel that's a very unlikely option. Why? Because this engine will run beautifully at 3000-5000rpm, no misses, absolute gorgeous V6 smoothness - it's stomping on the gas pedal that makes it choke.
the guy at the auto-wrecker yard wondered out loud if there's not some gigantic vacuum leak somewhere like the plenum, or intake manifold. This is a more plausible one, IMHO. If the ECU says the injector drive-time is 18ms (pretty much open for an entire crankshaft revolution) while your engine is choking, it makes me think the ECU is trying desperately to get enough fuel into the engine. The only way I could see the ECU being "fooled" and over-fuelling the engine would be if the O2 sensor was working, but reading too low, i.e. telling the ECU "I'm too lean! I'm too lean!", causing it to over-fuel. But my other O2 tests suggest it's behaving like it should. That said, I'm desperate enough to just replace the O2 sensor "just in case". If my #4 cyl was non-combusting for 2-3 days of driving, the O2 sensor would have gotten a bit fouled just like the spark plug did. But it's not exactly a very scientific theory. I pulled the O2 sensor off today and drove it for a couple of blocks - no change, but not a very scientific test.
one other thought I had - how likely is it that the ECU is just faulty?
also note, I have not performed *any* of these sensor tests at the ECU end of the harness - for example, I wondered if the air temp or MAF readings are sporadically dropping out or missing. So tomorrow morning I might backprobe (with a tiny sewing needle, thru the weatherproof membranes) those connectors just to make sure I'm getting the same readings at the ECU, in case of any bad wiring etc.
My gut feeling? I believe that it's a fuel/mixture problem, and that the engine is not getting enough fuel at big throttle openings. The new fuel pump helped a little, but I still can't push the pedal past a certain point without it stumbling badly. But there would need to be a colossal vacuum leak somewhere, for this to happen, surely? God I wish my analyser could read fuel-trim values and air-flow sensor values, and graph them - it would tell me way more. I'd also like to try a CO and HC exhaust test, that would tell me unequivocally what's happening to the engine during WOT.
Help! I used to work on cars a lot as a teenager and in my 20s, but they were all carburetted pre-1980s cars, no sensors, no ECU, and besides that I left NZ and lived around the world for 15 years - so this has been a huge learning curve for me. I found carb'd vehicles so much easier to work on, as it was all principles of physics and there was no 'mystery' involved!
Thanks so much for taking the time to read this, and I hope that not only can we nail this issue, but that the results can help others searching for answers to similar issues.
Anyone have service manual instructions or tips on how to get the alternator out. motor is on the right hand side looking into the engine bay from the front of the vehicle. Alternator is right hand back corner low, can't find a way to get it out.
My beloved june 1993(1994 Aust compliance) HJ galant V6 6A12, Alternator looks like it's packed it in but not entirely sure what the issue is.
just as i arrived at work, noticed an unusual whine, thinking transmission but appears to be alternator, smoke pour out around that area, alt case burning hot.
No alternator warning lamp displayed.
spent 4 hours trying to get it out, no way possible i can see unless the motor is moved?
Anyone had the displeasure of removing one with some good tips?
Also originally thought bearing trouble, but spun by hand felt normal, no noise or binding or roughness when electrically disconnected.
When everything is wire up and battery connected, resistance and very notchy as if a magnetic field is stopping it.
is this normal? I'm now thinking it's not and may be an electrical issue/shorted diode allowing battery to back feed current to the alternator, no whine with power disconnected and when connected has a burning/electronic/electric odour about it.
have no choice but to disconnect it and belts, charging each night as only short 7 k trip to work and back, hope to get buy until i can figure how to get it out and replacement or repair.
OEm alternator in the car MD188242 12v 90Amp Appears MD361625 is a direct replacement too and Bosch 0 986 JR0 151 is suppose to be for both of those as replacements.
looking for opinions on this camshaft cap. The marks are also now on the camshaft as well. Is the cap itself the bearing material or is it impregnated on the cap surface and now it's worn through?
I have no clue about this and I'm thinking I was not clean enough on the install. Just another note the heads were bathed with the cams out when I got the heads done 30 000k ago and I do remember all the cap surfaces looked rough maybe from the cleaning solution eating the surfaces?
I'm doing the lash adjusters and replacing the rocker seal again with OEM parts this time because i can't seem to get the leaks sorted. Also I think I've used the wrong sealant under the caps so I'm revisiting them whic is how i exposed this new issue.
Can I get away with inserting the cam seals both ends with some sealant and fitting the caps or is it mandatory to tighten the caps and tap the seals in?
I've been working on 6A12 24V heads on a non mivec motor in an E54A Hatchback Australian delivered. I couldn't find the exact manual at the time and used the 6A12 MIVEC version head tightening procedure of 20Nm + 120 deg +120 deg. Tonight I just accidentally stumbled on the correct procedure which involves tension to 74Nm, loosen then 20Nm + 90+90 deg. Well i did this except did the 120 +120 instead.
How critical would the extra 60 deg of turn be damage wise? The engine has been run but not driven. Can I just back off by 60deg or completely start again or is it too late as the engine has been hot? The heads were tightened 5 days ago so I am concerned that a gasket may not seal or blow if I do back it off. Can I get away with it and just leave it? The gasket kit was AJUSA and they were composite. The tension instructions on the gaskets were correct as it turns out but I did not trust them and went the extra. What a goose I am.
This problem has happened twice in about 2 months now.. Driving and come to stop engine like its gonna idle away touch the gas and hear a pop pop sound car like it stalls.. Put it in park try to start won't start after about 2 minutes the vehicle starts drives like nothing happened?? Any ideas on this issue?
He everyone I have a question if you can help me out. Can you tell me what would cause this loud squealing noise when I turn on my hearter or rare defrost. It last for about 2 minutes on and off. Is this a belt issue or something else. If its the belt is it expensive to get fix?
Can someone please help me with the removal of the clock on top of the dash which no longer seems to work (it flickers on and off), and also the removal of the stereo. Also, if someone can supply the colour codes for the stereo wires that would be great.
My Galant hesitates or bogs anytime I press into gas 1/3 of the way down. If I accelerate very smoothly it wont bog. It will hesitate cold or warm, seems worse after car is warm and really bad if I am on an incline or needing to accelerate quickly, or just leaving a stop light and stepping on gas slightly too hard. Feathering the gas does not help. have added 4 cans of fuel injector cleaner to the gas tank. I drive 20 miles to work everyday at highway speeds and have no trouble when car is at those speeds, but accelerating is smooth then, even on hills in cruise control. the car starts great and idles fine.
A few months ago I started experiencing an occasional problem with my car. Living in Florida, sometimes it will rain and blow for hours or days, and starting in May, a few times a month I would go out and start the car, and it would start fine, but when I went to drive away, it would spit and sputter whenever I tried to accelerate. If I let off the gas, and barely pushed on it, I could get it to go, but if I tried to accelerate quickly, it would sputter. However, after about 10 to 15 minutes of driving, the problem would go away. I noticed the problem ONLY happened after it rained for several hours at a time or days, while the car remained unstarted. If I would start the car daily, I didn't have the problem. One time while it was acting up, I disconnected the Mass Air Flow Sensor, and it didn't help the problem. Also, the CEL does NOT come on at all.
Also, the problem does not occur if I drive IN the rain, nor does it occur at highway speeds; only when it sits for several days AFTER a heavy rain and then only until the car is drive for 10-15 minutes. So far this month it has only occurred once, again, after a stretch of several days of rain without being driven.
I am trying to figure out if this is an oxygen sensor problem, fuel pump, or something else. I do not think it is the fuel pump because the car ALWAYS starts fine, idles fine, does not act up at highway speeds, and does not experience any problems after it is warmed up.
Due to the fact that it happens so infrequently and only under specific circumstances, I am hesitant about investing $300 for oxygen senors without knowing exactly if this is the problem. However, in a month I have a 1700 mile drive to make (moving), and I am leery about whatever the problem is suddenly getting worse during the long trip.
Anyone have any thoughts or ideas on this? My car has 190,000 miles and has never had anything replaced other than the timing belt, spark plugs, air filter, battery; the usual routine maintenance items. But nothing major like oxygen sensors, fuel pump, fuel filter, etc.
When the engine is cold it is easy to change to all the 5 gears. When I have driven for half an hour and the engine is warm it becomes more and more difficult to change gears. I have been to a Mitsubishi repair shop and they told me that changing gear box oil to Castrol FE 75W (article number 41-C4001075) can solve the problem! Now I have Syntrans Multiv 75W90 gear oil. Do you think that changing the gear box oil can have a large influence on this problem, or can the problem be solved by some adjustments?
I have a Mitsubishi Galant S/W V6 120 kW manual gearbox 1998 with identification number LNEA5WWY000206. The speedometer doesn't work, but all the other instruments work. It shows 30-40 km/h when I start driving and freezes at 70-80 km/hour when I run at higher speeds. I have been at a Mitsubishi repair Center in Stockholm (Vällingby) and made an error code status and NO ERROR CODES can be find. When I switch on the headlamps the background lights of the speedometer doesn't work and the monitor of the AC is turned off. I think the AC still works. The clock is also turned off. The Mitsubishi Center is not certain that all these problems will be solved with a change of speedometer. As the car is over 15 years old it is not worthwhile to do a lot of reparations and they told me that the car has a severe electric problem and it can be some electric cable problem due to earlier repair.
What do you think? Can a speedometer failure be the reason for the electric problem described. I hope you as an expert can advice me what to do. The car and the engine works VERY WELL ALL THE TIME and it is no other problems except the mentioned ones. Kind regards Nils-Göran from Luleĺ in Sweden.
I'm kurt, an one year old owner of 6A12 engine NA, manual.
I'm located in Singapore and Malaysia, basically over here, the local maker - proton bought 6A12 engine from mitsu and brand it as perdana.
it's 14 years old and i only took over last year.
although it's an old horse but i love it especially the sound and power of the V6.
I don't have much complains as this ride, is used for long distance. i can hit 220km without much concern, the only complaint is the handling
What i have done so far: change rim and tyres 215/45/17 full set of suspension, improves handling as for now stiff ring, helps maintaining the engine - 138k mileage new color coating
complaints at times: if i not wrong, 6A12 is only at 148bhp.. some time, i do regret of not getting a 6A12 TT, never had a turbo ride .. if one day, the engine fails.. probably i will get an evo 3 - 4G63T and do a transplant
6A12 ticker sound..
stupid abs system.. my abs has been faulty and i had a hard time in getting the part number. The local service centre is quoting around 8k for just the module while the whole car, it only worth 10k+.. proton (maker) has use 4 brands of ABS for the ride - mitsubishi, nippon ABS Ltd, Nisshinobo
I nearly had a few terrible accidents with this faulty abs.. the ride just can't stop too well..
by joining here, i wish to learn about this engine and what kind of improvements to enhance the ride further. Thank you
As the title says... 1995 Mitsubishi Galant 4G64 SOHC having trouble with starting the engine.
The engine will turn and will try to start but will die immediately. The engine will try to start and then will die immediately without any hesitation.
With a little persuasion, and several waiting and attempts, it will start and run fine.
I even cruise the freeway at 70MPH or so or drive in stop-and-go rush hour traffic, silky smooth, without stalling as long as I dont shut the engine OFF because I'm pretty sure I will have trouble re-starting it.
It happens intermittently and randomly. Sometimes, it will start with the 1st try, but sometimes, on the "nth" time. It doesn't matter whether the engine is stone cold or fully warmed-up.
On one occasion, I shut off the engine to fill up gas at the pump and had a hard time re-starting the engine.
Here what I did, so far:
1) Changed the spark plugs, spark plug-wires, cap and rotor.
2) Cleaned the MAF sensor (inside the air box between the air filter element and the rubber duct connected to the throttle body) with CRC MAF cleaner.
3) Unplugged one injector harness at a time while idling to verify if pumping fuel, the idle gets rough when injector which lead me to believe that there is fuel and there is signal from the ECU.
4) Removed the front timing covers off to check and verify the timing marks and they all line up accordingly with cylinder #1 at TDC, compression stroke.
As I have mentioned, the car drives great with no problems once started but the proble is getting it started.
Any ideas? Please help! This car is my daily driver and any help, assistance, suggestions and ideas are greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!
In my Mitsubishi Galant S/W V6 1998 120 kW with manual gear I have found an empty white electric wire connector. The connector is situated down left on the dashboard very near the connectors for the TCL switch and headlamp leveling thumb wheel. Can anybody tell me where this connector shall be connected. I attach a photo of the connectors.
When it is about 20 degrees inside the car and I adjust the AC control in automatic mode to 20 degrees C the AC put in too hot air and it will be too hot in the car. When I then decrease the AC control to 17-17.5 degrees C the AC starts to blow in cold air. It seems to be some problems with one of the temperature sensors. What do you think? Can you hint me to solve this problem?
Hi again, New problem here with Mitsu galant 96: The car shifts to the last gear (4th) at high speeds, like around 70-80 mph and it suddenly revs up to 5000 to do so. is this normal in this model or it could be a senor or mechanical problem..? Thanks!
Hi, I have a Mitsubishi galant s 96, so...there is this weird problem where there is no electrical connection to the transmission or the TCM, The car is just stuck in the 3rd gear and I'm getting high RPMs on high speed...kindda like a home limp mode, though it shifts fine from R/D. (D is only in the 3rd gear) I replaced the TCM and the car is still in the same situation. I even drove the car without the TCM plugged in..no difference! ...So I was wondering if there is a relay/fuse somewhere for the TCM or the transsmission itself? I can't locate the relay... it's neither in the fuse box next to engine or the fuse box inside under the steering wheel...
I have a 1995 Mitubishi Galant and I am trying to replace the fuel filter.
I need to depressurize the fuel line and I have read different ways to do this, including one which said there was a fuse under the hood for the fuel relay which could be pulled and then start the car for a few seconds to depressurize. However, I cannot find any fuel relay fuse.
Because I live in an apartment complex, I do not have a way of LIFTING the car up easily to try to find the fuel pump relay harness, although I've looked under the car and I do not even see any type of wiring near the gas tank.
So I am wondering what are the alternative ways to depressurizing the fuel system?
I have a big problem and hope someone on this board can help me out. I have a 1998 Galant LS, with 125K miles on it. I am the only owner; car came fully loaded with all the options at the time including the Automatic Climate Control from the Diamante.
Here is the problem, little over three months in the middle of the summer in New York, driving down the highway, windows downâ€¦ all of the sudden I felt heat coming out of the AC vents, look at the display on the controls and it showed 90 degrees, strangeâ€¦ lowered to 70 degrees, just had the fan blower on no AC, the control unit beeped three times and went back up to 90. Next morning, turned the fan back on at 70 degrees, soon after once again beeped three times and went back to 90 as I tried to lowered back down the unit will fight me back and with a mind of its own will raise right back up, it was actually funny but it became a pain afterwards. I consulted my mechanic; he said the main control unit is bad, called the dealer and they donâ€™t have the â€śDash Control Unitâ€ť available anymore. If they have it will cost around $900.00, started searching around but no luck, everyone selling used parts told me in their computer system this particular model did not have Auto Controls. While searching for the part I got another problem, now the unit will lower to 65 degrees, will engage the AC and it will not turn off, the off button will not respond (none of the buttons) and the only way to turn it off was to lower the fan speed to zero. So finally after two months I found a used control unit from a â€™95 Galant LS, very happy swapped the part thinking â€śits fixedâ€ť, to my surprise, the control unit will not respond, as you press the fan speeds 0-5 nothing will work until you reach 5 then it blows at full fan speed. My mechanic said your blower resistor is â€śbadâ€ť so we called it in to the dealer gave them the VIN # of the car and we got the right part for the Galant but it did not work!!, this time we took the part out and took it to the dealer, it turned out this part is for the Diamante model (which my car borrowed the Auto Climate Control system). Finally we got the exact match blower resistor, very happily tried yesterday and the silly thing still doesnâ€™t work.
Any ideas, suggestions are greatly appreciated; I donâ€™t know what else to do. Is the Control Unit that I just bought defective, does this car has a computer or a separate AC module? I am out of luck
Sorry for the very long email but I believe if I give you all the facts it might give you a better idea of the problem.
Hi, I have a 1996 Mitsubishi Galant S that has transmission problems. Originally, when it first started happening the O/D wouldn't shift - it went into neutral at about 40mph and then if you took your foot off the gas, it would hard shift into gear and then do it again. If I took it out of O/D, the transmission acts fine. We took it to Trak Auto and they ran the code, (since the Check Engine light came on) and they told us it was the solenoid for the transmission - which was a dealer only part.
We went to the dealer, ordered the part and took it apart and replaced the solenoids on the outside of the tranny. When my husband put the tranny back together, I couldn't get it out of park. It was locked - it wouldn't move. So he took it out again - did whatever he did and put it back together. The check engine light when out and I took it around the block. It was fine for about 5 minutes and the check engine light came back on and the O/D stopped working again. If I put it in O/D again, it goes fine until about 40mph and then shifts into neutral.
The transmission runs fine without O/D on, but for freeway driving, I understood you needed O/D. So, today I took it to Aamco. They told me that even though the check engine light is on, there are no codes at all. That I need to have the transmission pulled because something is internally wrong. They also told me it hard shifts. (I have never noticed that.)
Does anyone have any ideas on what I REALLY need to do? Thanks in advance for any assistance you can give me.
This problem started a few weeks ago, I thought it was the fact that my battery was six years old, but upon replacing the battery, the problem remains.
I have noticed that the problem is worse after it rains, and even more so after it sits for a few days. From park, if I hit the accelerator quickly, it will spit and sputter, and then finally rev up. If I depress the accelerator slowly, it will not spit or sputter. While driving, from a stop, if I depress the accelerator quickly, it will spit and sputter until I life up on the pedal and then slowly depress it again, then it will go. However, after driving the car for several miles, the problem seems to go away... it appears to happen (so far) only when it is cold and has sat overnight.
I tried disconnecting the Mass Air Flow Sensor, but the sputtering remained. I plan to replace the plugs and see if that resolves anything.
I am just wondering if anyone else has any ideas; btw, the CEL has not come on either. I did put some Techron in the gas tank the other day, but so far that hasn't seemed to help.
Can anyone tell me why the front sidelight on one side is wired for negative earth and the other side is wired the other way round making the outer casing of the bulb holder positive . I discovered this while trying to install led sidelight bulbs and could not figure out why the led's would work in one side and not the other ( led's work with current going one way only , unlike a normal bulb which will work whatever way the current is flowing) unfortunately the front sidelight bulbs have a bayonet fitting so I couldn't just fit the led the other way round. I am assuming that the light unit must be insulated for this to be wired like it is so can I just swop the wires over?
I just took my car on a trip to Moscow to see some friends. The motor is a 60k mile motor at this point. I have babied it. I have ran Valvoline full synthetic 5w/30 in the winter 10w/30 in the summers, always with energy release. I broke the motor in properly when I put it in with 30k miles. The car is a quart low now, it was a 700mile trip. It was full last oil change 2000 miles ago, and now it's just below the low mark. No oil in the water from what I can see, no oil on the ground, no smoke. Blown headgasket? I have never redlined it, the highest I have ever shifted is 5500. What to check/look for? I don't wanna keep dumping oil in it. please help. Thanks
Trying to put a 1997 Galant ES back in service. As the title indicates... what does the OBD ll code P0170 Fuel Trim Malfunction (Bank No. 1)really mean the trouble is? This Galant, which sat for about 4 years with little fuel in the tank, occasionally does a 'surging-chugging' sequence at high loads, but I'm guessing (since the fuel filter is new) it probably needs to have a new strainer at the fuel pump pickup. Would that cause the P0170 DTC?
Hey guys, I have a VR4 legnum 96 running stock, now and then when im driving my car will shudder not heavy but easly noticed , happens mostly around 2, 2.5k rev's, dosnt hapn all the time somtimes dosnt hapn at all but it shudders, eg..if shudder were to happen will only occur during acceleration, increase acceleration up above 2.5k and shudder stops or deaccelerate and shudder stops , not normal, machanic told me i needed to flush and change tranz fluid, he wud do all for NZ$160, im not to sure what to do and if this machanic telling me correct info and not just trying to make some bucks off me eh,
I scored a 96 galant and it has issues....but first i am gonna give big up 2 this forum. Thanx 4 giving me a chance 2 be apart of. Now to the real trouble , the motor surges in park very bad and idles very high . I am thinking the trouble is massflow sensor. But my other issue that i am stumped on is no clock no power windows no sunroof its as if all is dead . I have checkd fuse box changed out fuses and still no windows anyone have an idea of what the trouble might be and how can i fix . also does anyone or can anyone get me a pic of the fuse box cover.....so i may see what fuse goes where and what size to use
I breifly touched on this topic in one of my other posts. And got my answer on whats wrong and how I can fix it. Unfortunately I dont have the time to fix this issue so I am asking is it worth fixing or just swapping out tranny.
The problem is tranny works fine until around 40 mph then it will just not work motor runs but car is not under power(tranny and engine no longer connected)..... i turn off o/d and the car is back under power. My concern is the cost to rebuild compared to the cost of swapping....
I own a 1997 Legnum VR4 - it recently leaked oil down to the spark plugs from the front rocker cover which intially caused it to miss quite bad. Since then I have replaced the gasket seals but I still have a slight miss at times. As the 1st spark plug hole was full it managed to go up the stalk to the coil - could not replacing the coil and stalk cause this slight mis-fire?
I have a 1997 Legnum VR4 which starts and runs fine, but at times the engine does not turn off. After turning the key off I lose the dash lights but the revs continue to show. After pulling out the engine fuse and disconnecting the battery it then re-sets itself making a click on the firewall or at 2 relays - could a faulty relay cause this or my ignition? As this is an inconsistant problem... Thanks
I have just purchased a '99 Galant GDI 1.8ltr auto. The car has hpi check (never involved in an accident) and a full service history since it was imported from japan in 2002. The one and only owner of the car, after its import has changed the fuel pump before two years due to a fault and he told me that I have to keep it in mind that these cars appear to have problems with faulty fuel pumps. The car 3 days ago started having rough iddle when standing and especially when the engine was hot. The needle was moving from 500 to 900 rpm constantly but when engaged to D in the gearbox the iddle was getting better or when the air condition was on. Two days ago the engine started to shut off when the car was standing in traffic lights even in D mode. Yesterday the car drove like it lost at least 60% of its power and with three cylinders instead of 4. I transported the car (not driving it but with a recovery vechicle) to my authorized mitsubishi garage. The engineers told me that Galant GDIs have problems with fuelling in general but they claim that it could be anything from a faulty fuel pump(again ???), an airflow sensor - which by the way is extremely expensive - to a throttle intake. The car never had any mechanical or electrical problems in the past. Most people I discussed with about the car and the problem it has, have told me that 99% is a faulty fuel pump. Any help or recommendations will be highly appreciated. I am desparate !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was going 70 mph on the highway turned on my exit and started acting like it ran out of gas, it stalled and i started it back up and it wouldnt accelerate and the rpms wouldnt go up and if i put my foot on the gas too far and let go it would stall, rpms never went past 750, it idles at 500 rpm now, it wont go, never had problems before, its a 1995 S Galant Manual
Hi, I have a 1994 Mitsubishi Galant that I need programming instructions for it's keyless entry remotes. This is the 2 button dealer installed system and the remote looks like a Ford remote but it only has lock and unlock buttons. It is made by TRW and the part number is 3165189, the fcc id number is GQ43VT4T. These are the same numbers as the Ford remotes like these. The programming for the Ford models uses a connector that has to be jumped but I do not know if the Mitsubishi's use a program connector or where it is located if it does. If anyone could help me I would appreciate it. Thank you
A friend of mine has a 1997 Galant ES. It has been giving trouble intermittently statring. From reading posts with similar problems I think it may be the ignigion switch. Since I am mechanically challenged I need nice clear pictures and or instructions on how to replace the switch.
Here's hopefully a simple question someone can answer. Does anyone know how much if any free play is allowable or normal for these hubs?
I just replaced these with some aftermarket parts and one hub felt quite tight to turn and the other was relatively free. After i fitted them the tight hub has nil end play if you grab the tyre and rock it 12 & 6, 9&3 O'clock positions, the other has some movement maybe 0.5-1mm at the outermost point of the tyre which would equate to very little at the hub centre.
I'm just worried maybe I should not have beeen so cheap and got genuine hubs in the first place.
I don't know what amount would be considered allowable or normal. Rocking the car on the ground I can't detect anything significant but with the old worn hubs you could hear them knock.
HEY mitsubishi forum MY name is BRYAN from sanantonio texas, I have a 97 galant automatic 2.4 liter IT started acting funny two days before xmas ! sob just my luck to MAKE a long story short the car started jumping out of gear and the rpms kept shooting up I put the CAR to A HALT CHECK eNGINE Light CAME on IT READ BAD TCM . CAR WAS MOVING LESS THEN 20 MPH now it will not move at all i dropped the tran pan and no shavings at all JUST SOME DIRTY OIL THAT HAS BEEN CHANGED ALONG WITH A NEW GASKET AND FILTER I NEED SOMEONE OPION TOO WHERE TO START cuz im ready to scrap the car
I need help figuring out the correct wiring of my Trinary switch in the receiver drier. It's on a 1994 galant but I expect there's a good chance that the same principles and wiring colours may have been used on other Mitsubishis.
What's happened is that I did not realise this connection had been modified by cutting off the original connector and then reterminating the wires with crimps. Problem is when the wires come out you have no idea where they were instead of having a connector which normally only fit one way.
It has four connectors and the wire colours are green(white trace), green (yellow trace), green, black.
Can someone tell me where each goes?
I can't even work out the pinouts of the switch nor has any search found anything for me.
I have been reading here about the Galant AT transmissions - mine seems to be a sensor that needs replacing - my trans will work fine for days and then jump out of gear unexpectedly while driving - usually in 3rd gear to 4th - I think - maybe from 4th to O/D - not sure.
If I slip the gear shift back to neutral for a few seconds - then back to D - it will usually works fine again. Now the check engine light has come on and stays on. I can often drive 100 miles or more between a slip.
How do I determine which sensor is bad? How do I replace?
If this answer is here somewhere and I have missed it? - I apologize.
Hi guys, let me get to the point. im having problems with my 95 galant l4 sohc 2.4L. its worsting every step of the way. first there was the sudden shift shocks! next im stuck in either second or third gear, if i turned the key off then on again it resumes fine then the cycle begins all over. now the tranny does nt shift properly at all. any help would be gladly appreciated.