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 Another "cranks But Won't Start" Issue, Yes, I tried the pinned topic and search |
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 Aug 12 2007, 12:41 PM
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Member
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Location: USA
Drives: 1997 Eclipse RS
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Just got back from checking on the car. I can definitely hear the fuel pump run each time I turn the key on. I tried changing out the IAC motor and sensors just for fun. Also swapped both of the fuel relays. No luck. After cranking, I pulled the plugs and found 2,3 and 4 were wet, but 1 seemed dry. Did a quick compression check on cylinder 3 and got around 150. May not have been a good test, but at least verified there is enough compression that the car should attempt to start.
So, here I am back at square one. The donor engine would crank but not fire while in the donor car. Once it was swapped into the "good" car it does the same thing, despite swapping crank and cam sensors, coil, plugs & wires, coolant sensor, IAC motor and sensors, etc. What else that is engine specific, could keep the car from starting? I'll have to tow it home. Will probably double check timing first, but don't know where to go from there. If I take it to the Dealer, they will probably just replace all of the sensors and relays, then tell me it still won't start. From there they will probably want to replace the PCM and then want more money to diagnose/repair either the engine or the electrical system. Son can't afford that and neither can I. Other ideas? Help!
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Aug 12 2007, 05:43 PM
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Senior
Group: Members
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Location: USA, Minnesota
Drives: 1997 GSX - 6 Bolt !!! ---(1999 Eclipse GS - OZ ** SOLD!!)
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QUOTE(2gDad @ Aug 12 2007, 03:20 PM) Okay, I towed the car home. Still won't fire. Checked the voltage to the cam sensor and found nothing on the power supply (center pin of 3). Same thing at the coil. The fuel relays check okay. The PCM was working when the old engine threw a rod, in fact son actually turned the ignition off after the failure because engine was still running (although only for 10-20 seconds).
I tried again to swap the PCM from the donor car into the good car and found that the guys swapping the engine must not have ever hooked up the donor PCM because the two large recepatcles are slightly different, just enough to keep you from pushing the plugs all the way in. From looking at both PCMs the pins are all the same (no missing or extra pins from one to the other). Since the donor engine wasn't running with the original PCM anyway, and the PCM in the "good" car was workling through the engine failure, I don't think the PCMs got anything to do with the non-start in the "good" car but what else would cause no spark to coil and no power to cam sensor? To be sure of the no spark, I checked spark at all four plug wires and found nothing. Ideas?
Can anyone reassure me that it makes absolutely no difference what transmission is mated to the engine and there should be no issue with using an engine from an AT car in a manual car while still using the original PCM in the manual car? Running out of ideas.
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looking at the Wiring schematic 12-20 of the Haynes manual it has to be the PCM or a wire from the PCM to the sensor. take the PCM to the dealer to check it or check for short in the wire between PCM & sensor. Or its the ASD Relay or the fusible link before it :grin:
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Aug 12 2007, 07:36 PM
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Member
Group: Members
Posts: 30
Joined: 29-June 07
Member No.: 41,534
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Location: USA
Drives: 1997 Eclipse RS
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QUOTE(ESchwanz @ Aug 12 2007, 06:43 PM) looking at the Wiring schematic 12-20 of the Haynes manual it has to be the PCM or a wire from the PCM to the sensor. take the PCM to the dealer to check it or check for short in the wire between PCM & sensor. Or its the ASD Relay or the fusible link before it :grin:
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Makes perfect sense. Hope the local dealer can check the PCM. I'll take another look at the wires on either side of the PCM, but as I recall there isn't a lot of exposed wire, mostly wrapped in the harness (maybe that means less to look at). ASD relay is (supposedly) cheap, so may pick one up if we go by the dealer. As for the fusible link, I'll look for that in the Haynes manual, but if you can tell me where it is, that would be nice. Thanks again for taking time to read and post.
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Aug 13 2007, 07:55 AM
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Member
Group: Members
Posts: 30
Joined: 29-June 07
Member No.: 41,534
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Location: USA
Drives: 1997 Eclipse RS
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QUOTE(waynerwats @ Aug 13 2007, 08:43 AM) I had the same problem with my 96 gs throwing a rod. Took an engine out of an avenger with an auto trans (dont know what year the avenger was though). all i had to do was replace the crank sensor on the replacement (because it was bad) and the car is still running just fine today hooked to a manual trans without having to swap any major sensors. From what i can tell though from what you are saying is you used the manifolds and everything off the donor car while i reused all my original stuff. Dont know if that makes any difference when i removed them from the donor engine they looked the same.
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Interesting. Was your swap a 96 GS and a 96 Avenger? I'm just wondering if there is a wiring difference between the 97 and 99 420A engines I swapped. I did have all the sensors swapped from the original engine to the donor engine, but did not change the manifolds.
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Aug 13 2007, 11:05 AM
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Member
Group: Members
Posts: 30
Joined: 29-June 07
Member No.: 41,534
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Location: USA
Drives: 1997 Eclipse RS
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QUOTE(waynerwats @ Aug 13 2007, 09:44 AM) I dont know what year the avenger was. I went back to the junk yard that i got the engine out of about a month later and by then they had already gotten rid of the car so i couldnt find out.
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Too bad you couldn't check the year. Checked with the dealer about getting the PCM/ECU checked. They claim they have to send it out for testing and charge $90. I'd be better off putting that money towards a replacement. Guess I'll replace the ASD relay first, then check wiring and if necessary replace the computer. Praying for a $12 miracle.
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Aug 13 2007, 09:07 PM
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Member
Group: Members
Posts: 30
Joined: 29-June 07
Member No.: 41,534
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Location: USA
Drives: 1997 Eclipse RS
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QUOTE(95gst @ Aug 13 2007, 09:16 PM) trace ur wires its got to be a plug loose im telling u
[right][snapback]108289[/snapback][/right]
Well, it sure wouldn't hurt to unplug and replug everything one more time. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Aug 13 2007, 11:05 PM
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