Looking forward to the day I can actually fire it up again :)!

Well, here it is Monday and this afternoon I picked up the turbos and exhaust flange. Although they told me the flange to pipe studs would be changing thread pitch (1.25 -> 1.50), they didn't tell me the bolts themselves would be changing from 12mm to 10mm. 1.25 is the standard fine pitch for 10mm bolts, and yet the reason given for changing threads was 1.25 was non-standard for 12mm -- which is of course true! I'm told the studs are around 7 hardness and future breakage shouldn't be a problem -- can't say I'm entirely comfortable with the way that worked out. Anybody see a problem with going to 10mmx1.50 exhaust flange to pipe studs?

I'm admiring the clock adjustment and am seeing that isn't correct either, not a long way out, but definitely out (also, the actuator rod appears to be in contact with the turbo housing!) At least the standard exhaust manifold studs appear to be installed properly. Anything special I should know in order to further adjust the clocking myself? Or is that a bad idea?

I spoke with the shop owner and am told the damaged wastegate actuator vacuum inlet cannot be reliably repaired. Any attempt to solder or the like puts the rubber diaphgram at risk from heat. Epoxy might be OK except that it wouldn't necessarily hold up under the stress of handling (either now or possibly later.)

I asked if he had any idea what a replacement would cost and he was guessing around $200 new. So, it appears to me it's about time for Staples to pay up for screwing up. Beyond that, any idea where I might be able to obtain a replacement wastegate actuator -- doesn't have to be new, just known good?

I'm hoping you fellows have some helpful input for my above questions!

Thanks -- Trevor

PS. Looks like I need to find a new machine shop, these guys seem to have gone downhill!

EDIT: I was just looking at the contact surface area of the 10mm nuts with the pipe flange, and can't help but feel it's too darned small with 12mm mating holes. I thnk I should take it back to them tomorrow morning -- yet more delay!

As mentioned, After looking at the nut and pipe flange, it's very obvious 10mm studs would be a kludge, and that's not what I want in my car. However, I like the idea of changing the thread pitch to 1.50 instead of 1.25, it'll make it easier for me to work with in the future.



I would still like to know the answer to this, though together with the exhaust flange and my original turbo (as an example again), it was returned to the machine shop first thing this morning. I went over the problems in detail with the owner -- need this stuff fixed right and fixed fast!



Ideas needed on this one -- where can one get a known good wastegate actuator for a TD05H 14b turbo?

Forecast is two days of good weather starting today, and yet the other parts I need are back in the shop :(!

Edit: Well, can't make any progress under the hood, so I guess now's a good time to hit rust on the skin seams at the left and right underside. That'll probably take at LEAST two days to get a coat of paint on. Hope the Thursday and Friday rain forecast clears up :(!

As the saga of my damaged turbo continues! (A case of a missing seller? Ten days since last PM reply!)

http://www.3si.org/forum/f4/14-b-turbos-416213/#post4858714

i dont know what you mean by "clocking" what part are you trying to clock?

you can find a good used wastegate actuator on Ebay. I will find my contact information to a local guy around here that has a garage full of parted DSMs

I understand the turbos were last used in a 3000 dual turbo configuration. That translates into the center body (between the turbine and the compressor) being rotated 180 degrees from standard. So, it was necessary to have the center body "reclocked" to standard in order to be installed in an Eclipse. (If it's not set correctly, some oil and coolant connections are likely to have sealing problems.)


Thanks :)!

Since I've nothing to lose at this point, I re-aligned and soldered the damaged actuator inlet to the housing. Tried to keep the heat as low and localized as practical. Trouble is I'm not sure how to test whether it's actually any good! I'm also cleaning my crudded up and partially rusted 18yr old original actuator and have the same question relative to it.

The exhaust flange studs are correct now, just had to run a die over the threads to clean them up a little (I can actually DO that now it's a 12mmx1.50 instead of 1.25 :)!) It also looks like they got the clocking of the center body correct, but I see the compressor clocking will have to be changed in order to install a good actuator, though I don't think it's their fault -- something seems amiss with the actuator rod. Think I'll just have to adjust the bends to match my original.

In any case, any good ideas on how to test the actuator action so I know whether it's good?

Also, I have this frozen turbo sitting here and can't help but wonder if it might be practical to repair it. Yes? No?

EDIT: Just adjusted the bends of the actuator rod and now it fits properly on my old turbo (took a few tries to get it!) Now I just need to get that second turbo compressor housing rotated a little bit further somehow.

Thursday: Picked up a heavier duty spring clip removal tool from Sears and determined it's not THAT difficult to adjust the clocking of the compressor housing -- just needs a bench vice to grip the turbine housing and a little patience and ingenuity with the spring clip and remover (tool tends to slip off the clip.)

The second turbo is now exactly the same as the other two and fits the same wastegate actuator. Since the clamp locking the center to the exhaust housing is easier to release than the spring clip holding the compressor, I suspect center block clocking is even easier to adjust. So, it would appear THAT portion of my machine shop cost and hassle could have been completely avoided! Since nobody has responded to my questions on the subject, I gather no-one here was aware of that -- so, now you know :)!

Would still appreciate good ideas of how to verify a wastegate actuator is actually good. Anyone? Or is this also new territory?

Thanks -- Trevor

PS. Just been working on cleaning the compressor outlet gasket faces on these turbos and a word to the wise! Don't be a bloody ***** and drive a steel screwdriver between the outlet faces of your turbo. It's a real dumb move with steel faces, with aluminum it's f'ing abject stupidity!

Give the rod a tug if it moves with some force then it should be good.

if you have an air compressor (be VERY careful) adjust the compressor so that it will only allow about 10psi. Hook a piece of vacuum hose to the air chuck on the compressor and then to the wastegate actuator. let'er rip and if the actuator moves and holds then it is still good. If it moves and then bleeds back quickly or doesn't move the actuator is junk.

how bad is that old turbo? are you interested in selling it? it's a 14b right?

Things are going SERIOUSLY downhill here! I have just spent over four hours working with the anticipated "drop-in" turbo. It started with building the complete assembly and trying to position the exhaust manifold over the studs. Could not get it to go and finally realized the reason was the turbo coolant intake pipe was unavoidably colliding with the waterpump feed pipe. The only explanation for that was the "clocking" of the compressor housing was out of Eclipse standard.

So, I partially tore the assembly down again with the intention of adjusting the compressor clocking using my old actuator as a guide. After mounting the exhaust housing in my vice and attempting to rotate the compressor housing, I found it wouldn't budge! After wrestling with it for awhile, I was able to get a little rotation, but not enough. During further efforts to turn the thing, the spring clip ultimately popped out of the groove and that was the end of that!

However -- the compressor housing should VERY definitely have turned, and with nowhere near that amount of pressure on the spring removal tool. So what was the problem?

I found that in the compressor housing groove and on sections of the spring clip itself, there was a plentiful smear of rubber sealent! NO WONDER it was refusing to turn! I then discovered part of the center body flange edge had been broken off at some time in the past (now, how on earth would something like that happen -- a VERY amateur "rebuilder"?). I don't know who did the rebuild on this thing, but I suspect that center casting should have been in the trash. And whoever "rebuilt" it knew full well it would never be able to be adjusted after he assembled it! Can anyone say "HACK JOB?"

I've removed the rubber as best I can and I've been trying to re-install the spring clip, but quite simply, doesn't look like I can. Further, my last attempt resulted in my tool tips being broken off my removal tool. So, what it comes down to is I was never going to be able to install this turbo in an Eclipse, because it couldn't be clocked correctly. If I pay a shop to install the clip, for all I know I'm going to have a compressor leak!

The other turbo doesn't have this problem, but of the two (both having compressor outlet face damage), the other turbo is easily the worst and should definitely be resurfaced by a machine shop. I'm feeling pretty much like I was s#r%w%d in this bloody deal!

Yep -- a 14b, but I tell you man! That old turbo is looking better to me all the time! All that's wrong with it is the turbine won't spin -- NO HACK has ever had his hands on it! That's beginning to look like a pretty good scenario to me, PARTICULARLY the second part!

PS. And I was being down on dealership mechanics -- three broken exhaust manifold studs is NOTHING compared to this BS in the private sector!

Just took a closer look at the damaged center body flange and the back of the "O"-ring is fully exposed for near 1/2" -- which means it's completely unsupported in the face of air pressure. It obviously can't seal and I don't see how it could have sealed with rubber goop spread around either -- that stuff would just flex under pressure and a leak would result. Sealant is intended to aid and abet sealing surfaces, not replace sealing surfaces.

Here's a photo: (IMG:http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/TrevorSt/DamagedTurboFlange.jpg)

So it appears to me this turbo is and was garbage. Wonder what the possibilities are of moving a good condition turbine/compressor shaft assembly into a center block with a frozen assembly? Anybody have any experience with this kind of thing? Is that a reasonable thing to do (or have done?)

Thanks -- Trevor

wow thats a very good question. I'm pretty sure that you can do it. Here's the reasoning. When you send a turbo off for a rebuild they use a universal kit. So I don't see why you couldn't take the turbine shaft and compressor wheel from a bad cartridge and install them on a different cartridge. You would need to replace the bearings and seals of course. But they should work.

it would be a good idea to measure the turbine shaft with a good micrometer to make sure both of them are close to being the same size within .0004 of an inch. (just a guess, but something that spins that fast I would want them to be as close to the same as possible)

Hmm! Sounds like a long term project, but potentially worthwhile if I can get something of value out of this piece of junk and resuscitate my old turbo at the same time.

Guess I need to get on with finding a machine shop to resurface the other turbo's compressor outlet. That ought to be the only obstacle to installing that turbo.

Learned a couple interesting things from the seller today. Apparently the turbos were removed by a shop, and so that shop would be the source of the compressor outlet face damage on both turbos. The other thing is the rebuilder is also the guy who sold him the turbos -- a guy with the handle AdamVR4 on the 3000 board. I've sent him a PM with details and the photo! I'm curious to see his input.

Holy Cow man... you will be able to publish this post as a novel by the time you are done... You are Rich!! :thumbsup:

Is that the standard term for the center block -- "cartridge"? I'm just learning as I go and it's a new world to me. I could swear I had a micrometer somewhere -- I think from JCWhitney, but darned if I know where. Another linear search opportunity, I guess :(!

A fellow cleaned up the problem compressor outlet face for me today for free -- hit it with a standing belt sander in his shop (way off the beaten path.) If I can use him for other things I will -- very nice fellow! I may touch it up further with some emery paper, but may not.

Frankly, I've had my fill of turbo travails and need a break. Picked up a JVC cassette head unit last week with decent consumer comments and a good price (not Crutchfield :).) I think I'll install that before giving myself anymore turbo headaches.

Speaking of which, I'm wondering if I should replace the oem battery and accessory harness connections with inline 10A fuses and heavier gauge wire, together with replacing the harness ground with a heavier gauge direct to chassis connection. Opinions :)? (I've already identified the necessary wire connections and the old unit and oem amp are out, so now it's pretty much just a question of execution.)

EDIT - Saturday: Guess I've pretty much answered my own wiring question. The Eclipse harness uses 16 AWG for the speakers, but drops to 18 AWG for the battery and ground with 16 AWG for the accessory line. The 18 AWG could make sense for the battery, presuming the system uses the accessory supply for all the work, but definitely not for the ground.

Since the JVC uses 14 AWG for both battery and ground, with 16 AWG for the accessory, it looks as though it uses the battery line for the serious work. So, I really should run 14 AWG back to the fuse block for both battery and accessory, and probably just pick up a chassis ground nearby with a lug. Unfortunately, finding color coded 14 AWG locally seems difficult :( (shame to have to order it for such a little job.)

EDIT2 -- Found AWG 12 (no 14), but couldn't get access to the fused output connectors (at top behind the junction block), so had no choice but to tap into the ignition wiring with 12 AWG, and install inline fuses (stranded copper wire from Lowes, inline fuses from PepBoys.) I'd hoped to use the oem fuses as they're more accessable than custom fuse wiring which has to be hidden. Still, best sound I've had in any car in some respects (especially the cassette), but held back by a low level haze of distortion that colors every tape and station.

Guess I need to bump up the price level a couple times, but at least, now I know what $100 buys these days -- a long, long time since I bought a car stereo. Perhaps a Nakamichi? Fortunately, my power and speaker wiring are now 100% ready :)! (Spent a couple hours in the cab after dark, just listening -- although the sound isn't as clean as I need it to be, I can easily hear what it COULD be -- NICE :)!)

EDIT3 -- Just ordered a Nakamichi TD-35z, too bad I don't have access to their Orient only single CD decksl :(! I would have considered Alpine, but they don't support cassette anymore. (The Nakamichi MB-70 add-on changer could have been perfect, but apears to have reliability issues!) It's sad that a $100 JVC only delivers mediocre sound quality. Perhaps the pre-outs would solve the problem, but then I need an amp and a place to install it :(!

PS. If you were going to install (or have installed) a CD changer in your Eclipse, where would be a good spot?

EDIT4 -- Canceled the TD-35z! Uncertain of the sound quality of the tuner section and there's no return if I'm dissatisfied :(! Going to try to get some feedback from a couple audio forums -- this is beginning to look like another thorny issue :(!

Monday, and no rain :)!

Time to build and install the second turbo assembly! First thing I discovered is the supposedly good actuator on the original turbo I tried to install Thursday (it being the only supposedly "known good"), is actually ruined. I didn't notice before, but if I had successfully installed that turbo, the wastegate actuator wouldn't have worked -- here's a photo!
(IMG:http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/TrevorSt/DamagedActuator2.jpg)
Cute, eh? So both purchased 3000 dual-turbo turbos arrived with damaged actuators. Although I soldered the other (don't yet know if the "repair" was siccessful), there's nothing at all I can do with this one. So I've had to turn to my original (may or may not be OK) and build with that instead.

During assembly I discovered the rear coolant inlet pipe mounting land had been ground off the compressor housing. Had to retap the 6mmx100 hole and fudge a reasonably stable mount for the pipe (another hack situation.)

In any case, this time the completed assembly went right in (whew, what a relief!) Installed the new exhaust manifold gasket and went to install the new exhaust pipe gasket, but discovered I didn't have one -- darn :(! So, I re-installed the original (hope that's not a mistake.) I can see tightening the lower manifold nut closest the front of the engine is going to be a challenge, but at least nothing's missing now.

So having got that far and feeling a little guilty about that exhaust gasket, I'm taking a break for food and perhaps a trip to NAPA :)!

EDIT: Picked up the exhaust gasket for all of $3 -- least I've had to spend on a gasket all year :)!

Forgot to mention -- before assembling I spent a half hour or so quality time with the belt sanded compressor outlet and emery paper on a hand sanding block. The sealing face is now virtually perfect, and incredibly improved from the mess it was Friday morning :)!

Oh, well -- time to install a gasket and tighten some bolts!

PS. Just got word my next cassette receiver is en route -- a Kenwood KRC-335. Should arrive tomorrow so here's hoping it's a big improvement over the JVC!

Well, after all this time and hassle, I finally have the exhaust and turbine systems back together. Still have a couple concerns in that there are a couple oil leak risk points. One is where the dipstick guide enters the crankcase, the other is where the turbo oil feed banjo bolt attaches to the aluminum head. I had a devil of a time achieving correct alignment of the oil fitting and hence banjo bolt.

That's the problem with having any changes with the clocking of the compressor housing relative to the oem assembly. In my case, first I had to adjust both the oil and coolant feeds to work with the previous turbo (the one that had a clocking error I couldn't correct -- the broken flange unit.) When I went to this turbo, everything was once again off and had to be repositioned -- played hell with the oil feed fitting positioning. If the angle and position aren't basically perfect against the head, then the banjo bolt is almost certainly going to start crooked -- which plays merry hell with the aluminum head threads. After three false starts, I had to repair the head thread, for which I used a tap -- however, a tap creats metal particles and the next step on their path is the turbo! Something else that has me concerned :(! (If one has a set of thread reforming tools, it would be a better solutiom than a tap for a situation like this -- though since cast aluminum tends to be especially brittle, I'm not sure just how