May i know whose is the expert here in carbone fibre and are working in this industry.

I was thinking, is that possible to replace the whole car seat structure into carbon fibre instead of iron . so that can be lighten the weight and reduce gas comsuption

I'm not an expert, but isn't carbon fiber expensive? Would you really benefit by replacing the seat structure with carbon fiber to reduce gas mileage?

I'm more concerned about safety... how will it handle in an accident?

Its flexible, but if you are worried about changing it to CF for weight reasons i dont think it would be a daily driver car.

:thumbsup: In fact, what i was concern, i was looking into this cf future business. my intension is to build cf sit structure 4 publish transport to lighten the wieght. :thumbsup: as you guy should b aware, currnetly oil prices has reach the history higher and it will still keep on rising. :thumbsup: so, to reduce wieght is main reduce gas n $$$. as what my understand from insider information, japan is already started to look into build the car chassis with cf, bcause iron material prices 4 the pass 2 yrs has rise up by 40% future will at least increase 100% 2 ????. cf will sooner cheaper than iron. that is also the reason to start 2day is 4 the future.

:thumbsup: i know there is alot of xpert n professional here, so, i hope i can get the right person to work up 4 this project.

American, are alway the moust creative. research & development and advance technologies.

:liebe011:

I dont know but Carbon Fiber has the word Carbon in it, and Crude Oil has carbon in it, and i not exactly sure, but is Carbon fiber made from Crude Oil (means prices will be high) Where do you make Carbon Fiber?

you could also make it out of aluminum to make it lighter, doesn't mean its gonna be safer. I know you wanna make it lighter b/c of gas prices, but they use iron for a reason. It holds up well under stress. I don't think you will get the same effect with c/f. It just doesn't have the same ability stand impacts. I don't know how it will impacted in the seat structure but I guess that would have to be tested.
I think price wise, its gonna jack the price of cars up if you do it that way. In the long run it might save money, but thats a lot of c/f you would need. Might be something worth looking into for a race car, but like lancerpwr says.... it wouldn't be a daily driver.
If you're looking for a lighter car, take some airbags out. You'll get the same effect.

Or take out the rear seats... that'll free up a lot of weight.

Ha ha ha ..............................


I like it

:clap: :clap: :banana: :banana:

oh ... poor thing fullmetalpanic. don't u know, C/F is the most stiff material where even the later A380 under fuselage are already apply C/F ?

the same thickness of High pressure molded C/F material can give u 10time the strenght more than the aluminium or iron material. no corrosion and the lifespan =infinite.

please see = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_fiber

:thumbsup: foresee oil prices will repidly increase and all conventional material pricesing will also repidly increase, is all cause by high energy consume. copper, aluminimu and iron were be even worst.

:thumbsup: example for each aircraft with 380 seats, by using carbon fibre seat structure, individual seat can reduce wieght is about 20kg. 380 x 20kg = 7600kg. can u imagine how much cost can save. otherwise the airline company got to increase the air ticket price.

:thumbsup: forese, organization like public transport company, airline company and ferry company who are in the high energy consume businees r now finding their way reducing weight to cut gas cost for the transport. end of the day by next year all public transport passenger were absorb the gas price increase. esitimated is double the fare compare to current.

So, from now onward, C/F is a big businees till the future.

:57:

With steel/aluminum there is a crumple zone, but with c/f if you hit something, your body becomes the crumple zone. It may be a stiff material, but there is nothing safe about it. You can run over it with a trunk and it will be fine, but there lays the problem. It won't protect you in a crash, because its so stiff it will not crumple.
Im not trying to say that c/f isn't good and all, but I don't think its all that practical for building framing out of.
Boeing already uses c/f in their 787, which is their newest model out there. But I havn't see my ticket prices drop, they'll stay the same, b/c of the cost to build the plane. The money has to come from somewhere, and the amount of fuel they save is not enough to overcome the price to build the thing!

In all honesty though you're talking about fractions of a mile vs the amount you would spend on the carbon fiber and the cost of custom making it. I could go on a diet and it would make the car lighter when I drive it. Every gram you can take of your car helps, but to make it measurable, it will take a lot more than what you're suggesting.

Bottom line.... if you need an expert in c/f ask a company. You're on the wrong board. You seem to have all this information, but are just asking for opinions and then shoot it down when someone else posts. Not really cool if you ask me, I know you're a "businessman", take it somewhere else
Again just my .02 guess thats all I can afford to give since I am just a poor thing

Oh. please don't get angry, i not mean to insult you. i apologize to u. ok I am sorry.

:blush-anim-cl: Off cause i am not a expert of C/F, That is why i post this topic and hope 2 extract member who r expert 2 contribute advice because i am desperate to have the knowladge of making real C/F. but not making fibre glass.

:thumbsup: Back 2 the topic. So far as what i undertsand, Conventional, the skin of the body did not form a protection of safety when crash in the accident. is just simply form the look of the car sharp. conventional car safety are still base on the internal stiff frame structure. Current technology for C/f Structrure is call monocoque structure. a construction technique that uses the external skin to provide support rather than the conventional internal frame.

I can understand your point of view, the C/F structure may crack into pieces when accident. personally i not so sure whether it is refer to Carbon Fibre, but i am sure if the structure is made of Fibre glass, were sure crack into pieces.

Notwithstanding, as u say is true, C/F will crack in2 pieces, yet is not the key factor of safety issue. the key factor safety issue here is that, in the event of accident, is all depend what kind of impact strenght the structure can b absorb within amillion sec. Example, airbag is not made fully enclose, when the explosion pressure inside the airbag blow up the airbag, it can protect you within a million sec during the accident impact, n that is enough, thereafter pressure will immediate leak out through the holes at the side of the airbag less than 2 sec (calm one's anger). the same theory applying here, notwithstanding the C/F will crack in crash, but it still stiff enough 2 adsorb the big impact n protect u in a million sec. all serious injury are alway cause by the big accident impact. but impact r just happen within a million sec, once the impact is over, u r safe.

current after market most of the accessories (Bonnet Cover or Boot Cover Etc ) r claimed that the products r made of carbon fibre, but in-fact is not true. is actually made of fibre glass with carbon fibre look finish( Carbon Fibre Cubi printing) or semi finish with carbon fibre. "Carbon fibre is sometimes used in conjunction with fiberglass because of their similar manufacturing processes, an example of this would be the Corvette ZO6 where the front end is carbon fibre and the rear is fibreglass. Carbon fiber is however, far stronger and lighter than fiberglass."

base on the current oil price increase, either boeing or airbus r applying C/F 4 their fuselage 2 reduce weight n cut fuel comsumption, in another word cut cost. havn't see ticket prices drop, but 4 sure tiket prices will definitely increase if they don't try to reduce fuel comsumption. oil prices increase already causer a inflation chain effect to all industeries. so price don''t drop in air ticket r just normal base on the present situation.

I not sure it is true, a report show GMC share price has drop to the hsitory low, mainly due to less consumer are buying their car. because the car body wieght are too heavy n cause higher fuel comsumption. but the fact here is that, GMC cars sales business r not performing well.

:blush-anim-cl: well, once again i apologize to u am i say sorry. And hope more n more memeber can contribute their idea in this topic.

:beer:

carbon fiber can be made from more than just the carbon from coal or oil. ie graphite carbon, etc

Carbon fiber also when put together is by far one of the most rigid and durable materials made by man. The cost/benefit is not enough to warrant small parts in CF such as seat supports, pedals, etc.

However if you made an entire body/frame/chassis out of CF you would be potentially getting the strength ot titanium at less cost and near or less than the same weight.

That being said we still have not perfected the material or the process of making CF parts and pieces to be able to use it compared to iron/steel/aluminium at the same cost. CF is still very expensive and very labor intensive, plus you have to bake the entire part be it a chassis or a wheel in an oven to make the CF rigid and form to the part. Also CF has to be molded either around or onto an already existing frame providing an added support to the already existing support of the frame.

CF also has to be layered double in order to really see a gain in strength because each sheet of CF has 'grain' going one way

//////////////
/////////////
////////////

As an example.

You would have to double layer the sheets one going one way and the other going the opposite way to be able to get good support, strength and durability out of the material

XXXXXXX
XXXXXXX
XXXXXXX

As an example.

This effectively doubles the cost because of the double amount of material to get the necessary gain in durability and strength and rigidity.

So all in all CF looks HOT AS HELL on some parts. but its usefullness in reducing weight and increasing MPG is still a loss leader in a cost/benefit analysis.

how come when i post a very scientific answer no one responds to the posts. like my word is final on science.......sweet

We tend to like things short and simple aka, summary. :grin:

In anycase, if you make a car out of entirely CF, then like FMA said, you'll lose the crumple zones of the car. The crumple zones of a car is designed to take damage and lessen the impact on the driver, but if a stronger material, say CF, is there, then where will all the impact energy go? None other than to the weakest part of the car; the interior shreds up, potentially causing serious physical harm to the driver.

But CF Seats isn't a bad idea. Rigid seating for impacts is a plus and potentially cutting 4/5 the weight of stock seats off the car. But the cost of it...

On another note, electric cars are coming in 2010 in big bad madness. I hope. :grin:

the price of cf is going to go nowhere but up.... also, the first production of elecetric cars was in 1912... my guess is if they haven't perfected it yet unfortunately they won't by 2010... :offtopic: sorry

Maybe I should post my question here....

I haven't kept up with this thread so if it's already explained then slap me across the head and tell me to read it... but I'll take my chances.

Anyone know what the deal is with CF cracking or being more susceptible to damage in cold temperatures?
I'm talking -45C down to -55C (or even less sometimes with wind chills)?

I'd like to get some CF on my car (i.e. hood, or the front wind splitter). But our winters get super cold!

i belive the cost can b maintain low, if can design the structure possible 4 masses production. By the way r u familiar with CF?

According to a very recent report, ferrous raw material cost has increase 75%. but carbon fibre material cost r still quit stable, which can say not much increase. i belive the cost may be more competitive if CF become more common use in industries.

The only advantaged for a hybrid car, r when petrol become more expensive, likewise to CF.

By the way, how u thinks about CF made car seat structure.

If real carbon fibre will not crack under -45 2 -55c i think. if a aeroplane fly at the altitude of 30000m n outside temperature r lower than 40c, yet the front nose radar cover r made of carbon fibre n do remember airplane r travel at a high speed at this altitude. some part of Space shuttle r also made by carbon fibre. outer space temperature r as low as 3 Kelvin, around -270 Centigrade. So i belive that kind of carbon fibre will crack at -45c u r refer to fibre glass n is not carbon fibre.

You shouldn't have to worry about it in colder temps. If you have higher temps in the south it can get damaged by the sun. I would however keep it garaged or have spare parts to change out during the winter. The salt on the roads will not be good for it.