Hello. I rebuilt the engine on my 2000 Montero. It has the 3.5L 6G74 SOHC. My timing belt is set up perfectly, however, my ignition timing is 28deg. advanced. My mechanic checked it (for $240) but didn't know what to do. Ignition timing cannot be adjusted supposedly. It is controlled by the sensors on the camshaft and crankshaft. The vehicle runs smooth but when it warms up or is given a load it clicks a bit and has no power at all on the top end. I tore it apart again and checked it again to make sure the timing belt is setup correctly. Now it's in pieces sitting in my garage.

I'm thinking about trying to make an adjustable bracket for the camshaft sensor. Hopefully I can make the ignition timing adjustable by doing that, and then I can drive it that way to the closest Mitsubishi dealership that is 2 hours away...or leave it if it works.

Any suggestions?
Does anyone know if the timing can be reset on the computer? In the FSM there is mention (on page 13A-160) of using a scan tool to "Set to ignition timing adjustment mode." I don't know what this means and there are no details.

Any help is appreciated. Thank you.

So after putting on the timing belt , and the tension was picked up , did yu make sure that the adjustment on the cams hadnt changed?If there was a bit of slack before the right hand cam pulling teh adjustment in would bring the crank sprocket forward a notch and pull both cams slightlly back. To the eye it would be acceptable but infact doing a spin of the crank and re aligning the crank sprocket and checking the cams sprocket position they would be off. Just a thought i have done many Pajero's and Challengers and i always check more than once because of having to be in direct specificness.

Ive had freinds and guys we have in the shop have to readjust again because of the same thing yu are going thru , after doing a custom engine job or a timing service. On most i have seen tho teh bracket that holds the cam position sensor has very small adjustment. Particularlly for the air gap against the reluctor.

Thanks for the input. I haven't tried yet, but I plan to see if I can move the sensors just a bit. How much movement would there have to be to make 28deg advancement though. I was thinking about this while trying to come up with a bracket for adjustment. How much adjustment should I make if I go this route? And after looking at it, it is going to take some thinking.

I don't think my timing belt is off on any of the three pulleys with teeth. I'm 99% sure. Would it help anything or hurt to move the camshaft pulleys back 1 or 2 teeth. I think this would throw off the timing of when the intake and exhaust valves are open together above TDC. But I think it might correct the spark timing.

My two options right now:

1) Rotate the two camshaft pulleys backwards. Each pulley has 48 teeth so each tooth is 7.5deg. But the camshaft makes 0.5 revolutions for every crankshaft revolution.....I was thinking 2 teeth for 15deg. but I'm not sure when you figure in the 1:2 cam/crank rotation ration. Maybe move the belt 1 tooth.

2) Make a bracket to rotate the camshft sensor. The design is difficult and I'm not sure how many millimeters or degrees of adjustment it needs.

3)Option 3 - Spend some more money and let someone else figure it out...I've tried this already!...it didn't work.

Thanks for the help. I appreciate your input.

Option one , wut i would do it first bring it directly to TDC , and inspect teh crank sprocket , make sure it is perfectly aligned with the mark on the oil pump housng . Check both the cams markings to the rear timing cover. The main things are to check the right hand cam sprocket and the crank sprocket position.

Loosen the tensioner , compress it and put a pull pin back in the tensioner ( as yu already kno) for when yu need to release it. Bring the right hand sprocket 2 teeth back of the alingment mark on the rear of the timing cover. As yu kno the marks are not straight up , but angled. So the teeth adjustment are crucial.

Bring the left hand cam 1-2 teeth after its mark. Bring the crank sprocket about 10 degrees before its TDC mark on the oil pump housing. This is good to do with sumone around , but i have had to do it alone also. fit the belt around the right side sprocket and the crank sprocket with the least amount of teeth , to which there is minimum slack.

bring around the water pump and left hand cam sprocket , the left cam sprocket , being on an odd lift on the valves can spin easily , so hold the cam sprocket in place with a 17MM while i put the belt over it. Then the tensioner . There will be a little slack between the 2 sprockets and around the waterpump.

After the belt is all the way on , turn the left hand sprocket back 1 notch nearing its notch on the rear timing cover . gently turn the manual adjustment on the tensioner. Holding the left cam sprocket with the 17MM wrench turn the crank sprocket til it aligns with the notch on the oil pump housing. It should bring the right cam sprocket within 2 degrees of its mark if not direct.. Then adjust the manual adjuster and , pull the pin out of the hydraulic auto adjuster.Turn the engine to revolutions and bring the crank back to the mark on the oil pump housing, and check the other marks.





The cam pickup , should have a little adjustment. But yu can remove it and slightly slot the bolt holes to to give a manual adjustment. The crank pickup bolts directly to the oil pump housing so there is no adjustment. And the crank reluctor ring should be fine , altho yu should check , that the area on teh reluctor ring where the thru pin/roll pin on the back of the crank pick up goes thru teh reluctor ring and into the flat roller bearing, that its not have a worn grove. This can also cause a variance the computer is picking up.





28 degrees advancement is about in standard near 1/4 inch , which would mean that the cam is significantly off to wut the crank pick up is. There is an allowable variance of 0-8 on most and 0-12 degrees on GDI models but yur will be 0-8 degrees variance.

I really appreciate your detailed remarks. I will study them and hopefully make a change soon. I will let you know what happens. Thans again. Anderson

No Problem , Hhope all goes well.

Good Luck, Kongkit

100 to 1 that the crankshaft reluctor wheel was pulled off during the original repair, and not placed back on the rear of the crankshaft gear correctly.
happens all the time.

I thought about that too as of why i mentioned it , but teh thing is that there is a thru pun that goes thru the reluctor ring (to hold it in place also with the key) that goes also into a flat roller bearing that rides over the oil pump seal. So when putting it together he would have noticed that the crank sprocket was not sitting flush against the reluctor ring. Unless he overlooked it , installed the belt and then closed every thing up , bolted the hormanic balancer which would have pushed thextruding part of the reluctor ring in the crank sprocket. ..But i dont think that was the case.

trust me, thats what it is.
seen it happen a hundred times.

Why does it happen all the time? Cause yu do it? Ive never seen it happen at all. But logically i explained why it would not just happen all the time. The reluctor doesnt just sit in any position. And there is a flat roller bearing behind it, with a guide hole for the thru pin that the crank sprocket has goes thru the reluctor and into the flat roller bearing. He has to have an extreme vision issue or atleast legaly blind not to see that the crank sprocket is not seated all the way in and the small gap between the reluctor ring and the sprocket , also the the reluctor would not be totally flat against the roller bearing .

Anyway , hope it gets sorted.

But as much as i am trying to rebuttle against manybrews and about your capabilities, hoping yu havent done wut he said LoL , but i looked at yur engine pic and i see , even with yu having a bolt to hold the crank sprocket in (which yu should not need to have)but when i closely look and it seems that there is a little gap between the crank sprocket and reluctor ring , which leads meeh to maybe belive it is slightlly off? LoL. Well lets hope not. Cheers. :beer:

Here's a picture of the crankshaft sensing blade and the crankshaft spacer. I had to replace the spacer. You can see it was broken in two places. The two pieces are held together with two roll pins and position in location on the crankshaft with a woodruff key. I don't see how I could get this out of position. I'm still working on it though. I ran in to a snag with needing the special tool to remove the crankshaft pulley. It was easy when the engine was out of the vehicle.

Not quiet. Yu see the it has a slot for the woodruff key so yu can slide it in and out , but the key does not extend all the way back to where the position of which the reluctor ring and flat bearing actually sit. If that was the case. then there would be no need for the 2 roll pins to secure its correct position, Correct am i not. Wut clearly seems to have happened, and i must admit manybrews was correct LoL , as yu installed it thinking that the woodruff key help the reluctors position which it does not , the roll pins do , the crank spoprocket was put , and it was out of alingment , so one of the roll pins binded against and when yu tightened the crank etc the binded roll pin cracked the roller, as yu can see the crack is right under the roll pin thru hole.

Accidents happen.

That last picture I posted was before I rebuilt the engine. When I took it apart that spacer was broken. I just wanted you guys to see the slot in the ring.

Now I'm in the process of taking it apart again for this timing problem. I haven't removed the timing belt yet. Look at these pictures and tell me if you think it doesn't look perfect. Should I still move the cam sprockets back one tooth??



It looks to me like all three pulleys and the sensor ring are lined up. You can see the timing mark (notch) on the ring.

BLAPHESEMY!!! Thats nuthin but photoshop. juss messin.

Hmm wut yu really need to do is check the air gap of the cam reluctor to pick up sensor and do the same with the cranks. If there isnt an adequate air gap. Its a far out think . But i kno having the corect air gap of the ring to senor is important as ive seem on other makes. Hope things get sorted. Im really trying to think of sumthing that helps in yur situation. Ive never had to flash the timing system before , ive never had an instance like the one to which yu are having.

Doesnt hurt to check the cranks reluctor ring over tho since yur gunna be taking it apart.

do you have any idea how long ive been working on mitsus? Or how many 10s of thousands of them Ive worked on?

everything that can break on one ive seen break. and people screwing up the reluctor because they pull on the crank pulley when it doesn't separate happens to be one of the most frequent issues that occurs when doing a timing belt on a montero.

Guys. Y'all are a trip! I wish both of you were here to help me fix this thing!

The air gap doesn't look screwy to me. Maybe I need to check it closer.

My original problem was that the front main bearing was chewed up and the crankshaft ended up wobbling and breaking. That's an educated guess because the bearing was in pieces in my oil pan....and the crank was in two pieces. That was why I rebuilt the engine.

Now the timing mystery..
I didn't notice this, but my mechanic replaced the crankshaft sensor, becauase the plastic housing was chipped. A piece was broken off. He thought a damaged sensor might be causing my timing problem. Rightfully so, although replacing it didn't fix the problem. But maybe it was chipped because the ring was bent. Or maybe the ring got bent when the crank broke and made contact with the sensor. I don't know??? Should I check the rings more closely? Will it really affect the timing that much if it is bent and the air gap is not perfect on all pickups of the reluctor? If the magnets on the sensor pick up the ring, I don't see what difference the air gap makes. Educate me on that.

Or is it possible my computer just needs to be flashed?

I'm stuck. But it's all good because I'm two fisting a couple of cold ones!! :beer:

Thanks guys!
Anderson

well thanks for yur education on how many cars yuve worked on grandfather brews (upmost respect)i wasnt really disputing anythin yu had to say, Just thought hopefully in light of things this wasnt the case.Did yu read any of wut i said, especially the section yu quoted and then replied?.

In all luck. Im trying to think of any resolutions Anderson, were on yur side

Kongkit

Be nice now boys, we are all trying to help with this difficult problem.

Jim

Ive rebuilt quite my share of these engine also , and also have done DOCH conversions to these also , ive never had to flash and recalibrate the ignition timing in any instance to which this is very odd that yu are going thru this. If the computer is picking up a variance in most to all cases there is a variance sumwhere.Honestly i thin its with the reluctor on the crankshaft sprocket after seeing the pictures . Altho i am looing thru things between my free time so we can possibly aid yu in fixing this issue.