First, an introduction to who I am and what I have done in the past.

I am a 21 year old regular car nut. I first got my feet wet when I fell in Love with a local 12 second talon. I drew up plans for what I would do when I bought mine. I researched for hours and hours. I never bought a DSM. Instead the first car I bought was the first car I bought in Gran Turismo, the 3000GT.

I've been involved in quite a few project builds witnessed many more and driven and ridden in some stupid fast cars.

Highlights:

My personal 3000 GT with TT upgrades. I've basically done everything short of rebuilding the engine. When I got the car I hadn't even changed the oil on a car let alone done a timing belt water pump ect. It is now a very fun twin turbo car.

95 Talon TSI - This car has become the epitome of a DSM. Everything that can go wrong has and its one thing after another. It was supposed to be a simple 14B with simple supporting mods. Turned into big 16G FMIC HKS cams head work ECT ECT next after a new 20 psi tune is AWD conversion and bigger turbo. (NOW WITH 20G fun)

EVO 8 with 20G turbo Hks Cams ECT pulled like a motha and didn't stop. power on at 4000 RPMS and this thing screamed. Fastest car I've driven.

911 turbo with larger turbo... not much to talk about as the owner just said its got larger turbos. No traction in first. (its awd) and in second gear the seat tries to eat you. Fastest car I've ridden in. and I've driven stock 911 turbos this was by far much faster.

HPA's Turbo Beetle making 600 AWHP It gets sideways on low boost

I've noticed lately a lot of newbies with the mind set of GO BIG OR GO HOME!! This meaning they have to have the biggest fastest car on the block. While theres nothing wrong with being the best at anything, not having a realistic goal or need is what gets people in trouble.

I'm writing this not for the guy who has the money and the team and know how to build a car for a specific reason but for the average guy or gal who wants a car that they can hop in on Monday drive to work or class, beat 90% of the cars on the street, take the new girl out on Friday with out worrying if its gonna break, go to the track on Saturday and beat the piss out of it and let your mother drive it to church on Sunday and not have to worry about her stalling it because of the clutch choice that was mismatched.

One of the biggest mistakes I notice is the numbers game. Whether it be I want 500 WHP or I want 20 PSI of boost. First 20 PSI on x turbo is x amount of power while 20 psi on P turbo is P amount of power. But that is another discussion.

The number games I'm talking about now is the horsepower game. Any number you want, think it right now, It could be 400, 500, 550, 1000, 2000, it doesn't matter what number you want its what you can realistically do. Not with the parts available but is it realistic with your budget and YOUR needs for this specific car. Sit down and look at your budget, being honest with yourself is really important because you NEED to know what you want to do with the car. Are you going to take it to the track every weekend and be competitive? Are you going to road course it? Destroy Hayabusas on the highway? Or do you want a car that you can drive every day, car that will be reliable AND fun to drive on the street? These are the most CRUCIAL questions you will ever have to decide on.

Staying on the horsepower thing. How much is to much? I used to think there was no number and internet communities today would have you thinking the same thing. These car forums will make you think a 500 WHP car is the normal and anything less is inferior and not as fun. I for one will tell you that is bull shit! I have driven a 1136 RWHP Supra before... At 70 MPH in 6th gear with the tires warm the fucking car will get sideways. THIS WILL MAKE YOUR BALLS SHRINK. End of story never again that is to much power.

I can't really tell you what horsepower level is safe for you but a general consensus is that anything over 500WHP is to much for the street. Its just not safe to have that much power on an unprepped surface.

But then you ask me, "Hey what about that time I saw a stock 2JZ, 6G72, LS1 bottom end do 900 HP on a dyno" YES you can make that number on a dyno, once maybe twice or even 10 times. Now try to do that on the street and every day? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) That thing will be spewing its guts before you can blink, and thats only if you have managed not to crash or put other people in danger by using that much power on the street.

Ask anyone with more then 500 RWHP or more then 600 AWHP how their car drives on the street. I WILL tell you how it is from personal experience. IT BLOWS THE BIG ONE. Is it fun... ehh its great till you see the speedo coming up on 160 and you realize you JUST got traction and you are on a public road. Yeah because thats safe.

Once you break the tires loose you are no longer in control of your car. There is no argument there. Your just not. There is not a street tire on earth that can handle that much power.

While everyone's preference on fun is different, It truly is no fun for me to drive a car thats gutless for 5000 rpms and then explodes with a fury for the last 3000. And this is a problem mostly with small displacement import vehicles that rely on forced induction to produce the big amounts of power. The more power you want to make, the more driveability you lose, response goes down the shitter and all you get back is a short period of time where your car is an uncontrollable beast thats ready to throw you into a wall or into a ditch.

If you know someone with a car that makes about 500 hp ask them for a ride, ask them to show you what its like to have a car with that much power. I can almost guarantee nearly anyone will do it, its one of the reasons we build these cars, for our own enjoyment and to show off to other people! I will tell you this: you will be in for a world of surprises, 500hp is REALLY FAST! In this internet world it may sound like you're behind the curve and need at least double that, but its WRONG!

If you still decide to go all out and be the biggest motha ever then PLEASE listen to me here when I say take NO SHORTCUTS!!! NONE! Not ONE! You will only be shooting your self in the foot. One weak bolt on the suspension could mean your death or someone elses.

Stay safe and hopefully this will wake some of you up.




E

I bow down to you!!! (and not in a dirty way :grin:)

+1... hopefully the little kiddies will actually read this!
Should be the welcome message for the board

can I frame that?

I have to add my 2 cents, of course because I've built quite a few monsters, and have sent people flying down a track dipping into 10 seconds. Take everything he said, and read it again. Then again. 500hp is VERY fast. We sent a neon srt4 down the track with 423hp for a time of 10.92(without traction). 10 seconds is FAST. when you consider that a brand new EVO off the shelf might run a low 13? Reducing seconds in a 1/4 mile is exponential. This means that if i wanted him to go from 10.92 to 9.92 I would need about 500 more hp and traction.

I know of a race team that put down 974awhp before exploding in a fireball on the dyno. the cause.........a fuel line blew off the engine driven fuel pump at 9100rpm. gas squirted onto the dump pipe(and everywhere) and that's all she wrote. the car is a melted pile of scrap now. the guy who did the plumbing used cheaper fitting to save $33......$33!!!!! this car had well over $40k invested that I could tell, and the people around it were put in danger because he saved $33.

I was driving to the track one day in my eclipse. When I rounded a turn the driver's lateral arm seperated and I went flying into a curb. I had absolutely no control what so ever. I'm so thankful that it didn't happen on the track and that I was obeying the 25mph speed limit because if it would have happened at the track during a run I would have slid left into the car I was running against or the wall. I had never heard of a recall until after that happened. So, something simple and stupid can break and you can be in serious trouble or be killed so quickly you don't even know what happened.

More stories. There is a guy I know from home that had more money than brains and wanted the baddest talon in town. From what I hear it made around 700awhp and slowboy everything. He decided he wanted a 6 puk unsprung clutch because it was cool. The first launch he tried was at the local mall parking lot. he stopped, put it into the anti lag, side stepped the clutch and before he blinked was in to a guard rail. He blew all 4 tires loose and slid right into a guard rail. luckily he wasnt hurt but a month later sold the car and lost his entire investment. I bought the car a few months later for a pretty good deal (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grin.gif)

I will finish by saying that I've seen so many people (young and old) come to the track with their "estimated" 400hp, 500hp and even 600hp cars and leave with dents, scrap metal and concussion headaches. I've seen some people with 300-400 hp come to the track and run 16-17's. I've seen the biggest turbos on the smallest cars, some of the nastiest anti-lags that shake the ground and punch you in the chest, some of the most complex full out drag cars, some nasty street class cars and some fast muscle cars. Do you know what priority 1 on EVERY person's mind is.....................safety.

The faster you go, the more important it becomes that you can stop. The faster you go the less functional OEM restraints become. The faster you go the faster you hit something/someone. If you want to race, street or strip, you better know what the term "nut and bolt before the run" means. If you don't,,, you better learn before you get hurt or hurt someone else

you know i had my suspicions...but now it is confirmed, you guys are probably the most educated, wise car builders i have ever experienced. thank you for being really really really ridiculously awesome :thumbsup:

Pwee has more building experience then I ever will. I just jumped on certain opportunities that were available to me at the time and rode them and took them for all they were worth.

sounds like what any normal person would do in the situation

damn, thanks for the information.

everyday i see kids at school who constantly brag about how "fast" or how "nice" their car is, even though they didnt spend a dime on it. Or even popped the hood to work on it, for that matter.

sad thing is, they always put them selves in this "street racer" category, manifested from things like the fast and the furious, im assuming. haha

anyways, my point is, most people my age (in high school), and even some older people, need to learn more about the fast moving piece of metal they posses, before going out and showing off.

i havnt even started driving yet, and i feel as if i know about people's cars and how to use them then they do, just because ive taken the time to do the research.



btw. i honestly think this is one of the best forums for car help ive seen, Mitsubishi or not. you guys know what youre talking about, and answer anyone's questions. Major props to you guys. ;)

you have much more driving experience. the fastest car I ever drove was that srt4 and the torque from that thing was inbelievable. I can't imagine some of those higher end cars or driving some of the cars i've built for. I am seriously excited/afraid of the talon i'm building because once I get it built for what I want (using my own money sucks and takes forever :laughing: ). Like i've said before i'm only an engine builder. I haven't been a driver or a tuner before so it's going to take me at least 45 passes or more to get it dialed in and to not come out of the driver's seat shaking with adrenaline and fear of puttting it into the wall. i'm sure you've experienced those shakes....probably after that twin turbo porche

Everyone of us started out at the same level you are, maybe even lower. in my experience 90% of "street racers" merely have bolt-ons and never break 300hp. Anyone over that usually doesn't feel safe on the street and goes to the track where they know safety is number 1

I'd love for you to.... ;)

^ wouldnt we all :-). shes a hottie for sure

Hero sky- When I first got into cars I knew nothing.

I found a car (the talon) and found out everything there was to know about it. But I didn't stop there. I hate people who are closed minded. (not just with cars) I researched camaros mustangs ect Hondas

I would take in everything I could from people talking around me. And if I heard something that didn't mesh or click I'd ask them to explain it. If someone said something that didn't match another persons explanation I'd mention it and see how they would respond maybe I only had half the story or maybe it was all wrong either way I was better off

IF A PERSON KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT --- they will answer any question asked if you ask without being a douche bag. They learned this stuff and Love to talk about it. Just ask.

I know a master mechanic, that I couldn't have a conversation with or if I did it was like it was straining him to talk to me. As soon as I started asking him HOW to do something his face lightened up and he drew it out for me and explained in detail how I needed to go about doing it.

To learn something from someone who is not a teacher in highschool you need to know the right chords to play. Or in other words the right words to say and the right questions to ask. Maybe offer to sweep up a garage once a week or something. If you want to learn about cars or anything for that matter you have to submerge your self in them.

This is not something that I learned over night, This is damn near ten years of studying and determination.

Gotta add my two now....

Yeah I was kinda in the same boat as everyone else when I was younger. I was kinda a tomboy growing up and always liked to learn new stuff. I figured I didn't have to be a skirt and not know how to change my own oil and stuff.

My father is a mechanic and I started with him. He taught me the basics of engines and cars. The rest I learned from my husband. I swear he teaches me something new every day. My first huge project was an engine swap. We put a 2.5 from an acclaim into an 86 Lebaron :P Not a whole lot of power there!

No other real engine swaps besides that one. Just repairing blown head gaskets, replacing water pumps.... stuff like that. I learned as I went, I never really had good cars until I got older so stuff went on them and it wasn't under warranty. My first car was a huge lemon. I always had help, and I always took advise from others. Thats how I learned what I did.

I never even knew the first thing about turbos until my husband bought his first VR-4. I learned about them quickly only because he needed help with it and conned me into getting into the engine with him :laughing: I love power as much as the next man with a banana hammock.... but I realize its not everything. Learn the basics before you go strapping on that much power!

I think the biggest thing I learned is that you can never know it all. Just reading EMC's post about his conversion has learned me some new stuff.


Oh and boys.... I can only please one man slave a day... wait your turn! :bwekk:

That's exactly where I am right now. I have absolutely no experience, and I research all different kinds of engines. The main thing is the large V8s because I have yet to see a show that focuses on us smaller peoples...

Like you also pointed out... Horsepower is Horsepower is Horsepower. You want to know what 500 horses feels like? Drive a 500 horsepower car.

I used to be all like, "I want a gajillion horsepower!!!" until I drove a Corvette. Not even the ZO6, the base model, with the LS2... I tell you, that changed how I view horsepower. That's why I am going to start with a modest 200-225 build.

Also, just because you sport 300-400 horsepower in your street legal Integra, doesn't mean you know how to control it. DO NOT initiate a race in a school zone, during rush hour traffic... epic fail won't even begin to describe you...

I love my Mach1...

That said I want a C4 Vette

Too much howsepower for the street is a tough one...how much you can control it safely at all times......is always up to the driver. I have had the opportunity to drive many many cars & bikes.
I currently have at my disposal some quick cars & some fast cars. Fast being a 2005 Corvette Convt. (for now ;) ) with the automatic. Yeah 400 horsies are nice.....but where are you going to use ALL that power on the street? I don't take it to the track or beat on it & never will. It's just a cruiser to me with some power to play when you want. If you get stupid with the car it will come back to bite you QUICK! Why mess around & possibly have an accident...your hard work will be worthless in no time....
Besides the conditions of the streets around my area are horrible. You race & hit a pothole...your f'd! Try looking at wreckedexotics.com
There is a nice site for people to see....fast cars that are destroyed by people who are racing & lose control or just doing stupid things with their car....all that money & a nice car are junk now.....

my car has 135 base HP...and honestly sometimes its a little much for me. my first car was a 97 ford aspire, and that thing barely hit 80, downhill...now that i have my galant i just want more and more, but i knw that anything above like 200 right now would scare me. im a great driver, ive gotten out of slamming into guard rails and flying off the road many a time, but only when there is nobody around. if there were other cars id be fucked. so even for experienced drivers, not a lot of HP can get you if u arent used to it.

i started off on a baretta. 2.3 DOHC 180HP i think. i drove it like a dumb ass. and here's what i think. if your an idiot driver, it doesn't matter what HP you have. all it takes is 90 HP or less to break into 100MPH. and once you do that your a danger. now take 100MPH and put it on old tires and an inexperienced (not young, i said inexperienced) driver and your a 100MPH bomb heading in someone elses direction. all it takes is a rabbit to jump out, you to flich and its over.

there is a reason the best drives are on the tracks, they KNOW what happens to fast cars on the street. now i'm not going to pretend i haven't been 120+ on the road. BUT it was on an open highway in the middle of montana. NOT in the streets of a large city.

i read on here everyday about people wanting 600+ HP on a car. and they are asking how to get it. this is a bust already (and i won't lie, i've been there too)
what you need to do is DRIVE a car that has that much HP and THEN decide where you want to go with it.

I had an eclipse that was at about MAYBE 240 to the crank. i had HUGE front tires on it and i STILL lost tractoin up til 3rd. and when it was wet, 3rd was loose too. and like EMC said, once your tires are spinning, you don't have control over them anymore. and in FWD cars if your spinning in the front, what's controlling the car?

WERE NOT telling you not to build, were telling you to be smart about it and be safe. there is a thread on here that leads to a BMW forum. they kid wanted MORE HP on his M3. everyone wanted to know why? M3 are fast as shit. then the kid stopped posting. he put his M3 into a tree with 3 friends on board.

he not ONLY killed himself, he killed 3 other parents's children, 3 other brother or sisters, 3 OTHER people because he wasn't ready to go that fast and he still did
and i'll leave it at that......

Im not trying to build a race car, i just want a nice exhaust system and a nice CAI. I'm mainly doing that for better gas milage :o

very well put. anyone who is full of shit will try to fill your head with brand name drops and regurgitated infomation.

I learned how to build engines from a similar guy. he's a master mitsu tech and can probably plasti-gauge in his sleep.

I've been playing around with DSMs for about 8 years. I had't planned on doing anything to my eclipse when I bought it but once day I was riding my bike home from work and saw a blue 1g absolutely TEAR ASS up a side road. I had never seen a small car fly away that fast before. I told my buddy (above mentioned tech) and he said, "that might be one of the slowboy guys. I hear there is a company in indiana that is really goin nuts with dsms." So, we googled, mapquested and stopped by at "slowboy racing" (at that time it was in Mike Huml's basement).

When we first walked in we saw turbo's on couches, a copmuter that someone was running an online store from and in his garage were a few 4g63's on engine stands. And out back....was the blue 1g and other 1g's which were obviously parts cars. We talked to him for about 5 hours and he hired my buddy on the spot to do some casual work (basically they wanted him to help because he had a state inspection license and no one else did at that time). Slowboy progressed into the company everyone knows today and I watched it grow from an online store in someones basement to a full service shop, then to a parts store with a dyno and shop work only, then to a full machine shop with in house fabrication and online store. The show room was cut down by 2/3s the last time I stopped by and no one I know works there anymore except the owner (mike) but I doubt he remembers me at all.

I learned so much from them an my buddy. It's been building and racing bliss ever since. But even after 8 years i still call them and ask for specs/advice now and again.