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> Engine Suddenly Died.
Waterman
post Aug 19 2009, 03:17 PM
Post #21


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I tried to remove the ECU by depressing the end clips and pulling it out.It will not budge and I am wary of using too much force in case I damage the ECU or its mounting.Is there a trick to this?
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KiT TeUnG 2549
post Aug 20 2009, 12:12 PM
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Do yu kno if any moisture , water or anything could have gotten near the PCM/ECU? It is easy to check the coils , altho i do not think that is the issue. Hmmm , checking the crank position sensor to make sure the portion that rides between the sensing blade. The sensing blade can wear the sensor section down. It would require removing the crank pulley and belts and timing cover.

The ignition coils also are easy to check. The PCM/ECU has a 4 bolt bracket on most with a slotted section. This may be the reason it is hard to remove. I will look for sum technical diagrams for yu to aide yu if i can.
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Waterman
post Aug 21 2009, 10:35 AM
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All 4 coils test out ok - at least on the primary.I am going to test power supply to the coils next.Then test out the crank sensor.
I look forward to getting the ECU info.
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Waterman
post Aug 23 2009, 05:07 AM
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I have tested out the power supply to each coil under cranking conditions and have obtained the following common results;
Power to each coil with ignition switch on is 12v.Power to each coil when cranking is 10v.Power to coil transistor with ignition switch on is 0v.Power to coil transistor when cranking 1.6v.I am using a megger but the results are telling me that the ignition circuit is ok to the coil and I should at least get a spark.
Testing out using a spark plug failed on each coil - then I noticed that the replacement spark plugs fitted by my mechanic are not the specified type.He has fitted NGK BKR6E II intead of NGK IZFR6B. Could this be a problem?
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KiT TeUnG 2549
post Aug 23 2009, 08:35 PM
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As ive have noticed coils should always get a positive voltage cranking , but the other terminal is a referance signal to make the coil ignite . The referance comes frum the PCM. There should be a primary voltage signal with ignition on. Most coil per cylinder most have 2 wire , a ignition on hot and the other grounding signal is sent frum the PCM to make the coil ignite. AS in sum GDI 1996-2001 have a power transistor that intersects the ignition coils ( 1 coil per cylinder setup) . But most GDI as of 2000 up have power transistor in the coil assembly. So sum have a 3 wire plug in. A key on power 12v , a ground and a signal referance frum the PCM.
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Waterman
post Aug 23 2009, 09:23 PM
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My coil packs are 3 wire and appear ok.I am getting the correct spark plugs today.
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KiT TeUnG 2549
post Aug 24 2009, 11:16 AM
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Yeah like this
Attached File(s)
Attached File  ign_coil.JPG ( 20.35K ) Number of downloads: 9
 
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Waterman
post Aug 25 2009, 02:27 AM
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My coils are exactly as the diagram.I will be trying the new spark plugs later on today.
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KiT TeUnG 2549
post Aug 25 2009, 02:27 PM
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Are yu receiving a referance signal? Hopefully the issue is caused mayb e by fouled spark plugs. Did yu check resistance at the boot leads. When yu pulled the spark plugs , wut did the tips look like? Dark , or whittish or inbetween?
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Waterman
post Aug 26 2009, 01:09 PM
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I only get a reference voltage when the engine is cranking.I have fitted the correct plugs and still no spark.So far I have changed the cam sensor, fitted replacement coil packs and new correct type plugs all to no avail.
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KiT TeUnG 2549
post Aug 26 2009, 03:50 PM
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The coils should be getting direct 12v frum one of the terminals with the ignition key on. And a constant ground with that. The referance signal is to trigger the internal power transistor so the coil fires. It needs to be getting 12v with key on , and ground also. Is yur security light flashing when yu attempt to start? On sum models there is a key logo.

There also is a fuse for the coils. Check the fuse panel in the bonnet. IGN and such fuses control the ignition coils and relays
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Waterman
post Aug 27 2009, 01:32 AM
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I get 12v to the coil with ignition on. I do not get 12v to the reference terminal.The only voltage to the reference terminal is 1.6v obtained when cranking.The ground is good.I will check the fuses and look if a key icon appears.
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KiT TeUnG 2549
post Aug 27 2009, 09:40 AM
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The referance signal is not a 12v signal frum the pcm. The referance usually is a very low voltage signal , up to 5v or a low voltage earth signal. Yu can test the coils by putting one the old plugs in the coil with the coil off and touch the tip of the plug to a ground , as in the cam cover bolt. With the coil plugged in , have the car turned over , and see if there is spark at the plug . If a spark is being supplied , there may be another issue at hand.

With a proper plug in , one that plugs into the coil , the coil, can be bench tested this way. Bench testing the coil will tell if there is sumthing else that is keeping the coils frum operating as in the security system , or open ground etc.
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Waterman
post Sep 2 2009, 12:34 AM
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I checked the fuses and found the 100 amp fuse blown on the battery circuit.Replaced fuse and tested for continuity - ok.
Now I find I have no power at all to the coil packs.
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KiT TeUnG 2549
post Sep 2 2009, 10:23 AM
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Okies , so before yu had ignition power and a ground to the coil ? But now yu replaced the main fuse that will send power to all the main accessories like PCM etc yu have no longer ignition on power to the coils? Seems funny. Was the battery replaced recently? The 100 will not likely burn unless sumthin large shorted it. Like a battery being improperly put or the cables . Was this the onlee fuse burned?

Most Space Wagons i have seen , GDI and V6 models also have a large MAX fuse on the battery cable at the battery and also in the fuse box located near the battery. NOt sure which yur refer to. Seems odd that it would do that unless another fuse , possibly one that may have been causing issue burned. Or the immobilizer tripped , cutting ignition power to the coils
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Waterman
post Sep 2 2009, 03:14 PM
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Battery was replaced and I think you are correct in your assumption that it was fitted incorrectly because the terminals are the opposite hand. The guy that fitted it claims he fitted it correctly but I doubt that now.The 100A fuse is located in the fuse box.
Everything except the ignition circuit is working, any ideas?
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KiT TeUnG 2549
post Sep 2 2009, 04:41 PM
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I wish i had better answers. Do yu kno if the injectors are fuel system is operating. Does it still turn over? Could be a possible fault with the PCM or immobilizer ECU. Im really trying to think. But in most cases its hard to say , the Immobilizer usually stops the injectorts and fuel pump , not really the ignition coils. So as why yu are before having 12v at the coils with ignition on , and now since yu replaced the MAX fuse there is no longer 12v present at the coils with ignition on.

Seems sumthing faulty within the system. Or even ETACS-ECU. When the ignition key is on power is sent back to the 12v relay that should send power to the coils. Like the main IGN power relays etc. Its an odd thing to have power before and loss of power to the coils now
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Waterman
post Sep 3 2009, 05:40 AM
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Engine turns over ok and the injectors appear to be ok ( removed a coil pack turned engine over and could smell petrol ).

Battery was fitted incorrecctly - guy reckons that the terminals touched for a fraction of a second, big flash, then he realised and turned the battery around.He thought no harm had been done so he kept quiet about it.

So I had 12v, ground and a reference before the short and do not have it now.
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KiT TeUnG 2549
post Sep 3 2009, 01:40 PM
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I say that there may be an electrical issue cause by the whole episode. It may be causing power relays that power the coils and other ignition system like coils etc to act invertedly. Since yu smell petrol , for the most part the PCM seems to be commanding the fuel pump , and the immobilizer should not be triggered. When yu turn on the ignition switch it will send a 12v signal to the fuse panel near the battery commanding the power relays . Its a very odd thing. A poweer issue seems at the junction block near the battery , hard to say its at the ignition switch
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Waterman
post Sep 26 2009, 12:28 PM
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Got another mechanic to check the car over - he suspects the ECU
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