Now id like to keep this non flaming and seriously just a practical debate. Just because im sick of some gts owners bragging about their engine in the area i live in vs the 2.0

Okay so correct me if im wrong.. And feel free to add!

Pros 2.0

Fuel economy
Price vs the 2.4
More upgrade options

Pros 2.4

More torque and hp
Quieter

Now the argument is that their 2.4 is faster. But its true, non-upgraded. But in reality. Best bang for the buck imo' would be the 2.0 because for the money you would save buy buying the 2.0DE from the 2.4GTS you could add a turbo, and stroker kit plus. Which would boost you up to about 250hp no problem. OF course you would void your warrenty. But personally i love the 2.0 because of the options you have atm. Id prefer the 2.4 if there weren't any. But am i alone lol. Did any1 else but the 2.0 to make it a upgrade project like the old lancers?
I guess another question would be, why did you decide to but the gts over the 2.0?

I bought the 2.4 so I wouldn't have to mess with upgrading the engine and voiding the warranty. I didn't buy the Lancer for performance. I had no idea it was quieter. I think its pretty noisy. Didn't they come out with the 2.4 last year? In time, they will have the upgrades.

1) Fuel economy is essentially the same between the two engines, your talking 2 miles per gallon difference in perfect conditions. In real world I'd say its a non-issue.
2) 2.4L has a lot more power, 16hp and 22ft/lbs torque, that's a lot. 2.4 also has a higher compression ratio and is significantly quieter.
3) 2.0 having more upgrade options was true at first, but not any more, since most upgrades, especially performance, are geared toward the GTS model, there are lots of 2.4 mods out now, since there is no 2.0 gts model anymore and soon there will be much more 2.4 stuff and 2.0 parts will drop off immensely. For example, when I spoke with DC headers, they aren't even going to bother making a 2.0 version of their headers, only a 2.4 version.
4) 2.4 is a lot faster especially when comparing a 2.4 manual to a 2.0 cvt.
5) IMO, de model is not the best bang for the buck, it's no GTS, not even close. That's why the gts costs more. GTS has better looks, rims, tires, suspension, brakes, stabilizer bars, and a lot more factory options available. Could you make a de into a gts, I guess anything is possible, but I doubt not for 4k, which is how much the more the gts is.
6) Turbo and stroker kit = about $7,300, and that's not installed.
7) You could boost a 2.4 gts and it will blow away a boosted 2.0 de. Remember there's more to driving and racing than straight line drags. Gts wins hands down.
8) The difference between the DE and the GTS equates to the difference between a ralliart and an EVO. The ralliart is no evo and the de is no gts.

I bought the gts over any non-turbo 2.0 version, because it better. It's that simple. Sorry to say, but the 2.4 owners have a right to brag when compared to the non-turbo 2.0.

i hear ya NY. I agree with most of what u said. Tho u can boost the gts, i was simply just implying u could get alot more outa the DE for the same price. Other than Springs etc. Im comparing the DE cause its the cheapest model btw. Im talking about engine wise for the most part. I mean if we rallied are cars on the road, ida baught an evo. But we dont so id rather buy a project i can eventually appreciate. And customize to my own likeing. For instance. The gts rims and sound package are always being replaced!. What the hells that all about, why pay for the extra if your just going to replace it. Baffles me. But if you totally like the car for what its for then by all means, id rather the gts if i new i wasn't going to upgrade. (i drive SE).
But as per preformance on a track, The 2.0 boosted would take a stock gts without a doubt. Springs or not, it wouldent make that big of a difference in the short stretches. Handling wise, i dident notice a difference untill i took the corner doing about 60km lol.
I took both to my uncles airport and ripped them around before i bought mine. Alot of the upsell is for things we will never use. I went through it all. Basically started at the gts and worked out what i dident need, or what id be replacing, and ended up with the se lol. I just wouldent brag like some of the people do. And a ralliart is the economy evo. Toned down for aggressive everyday drivers. Evos are for people that rally or show off their money. Why dont u think the ralliart comes standard anymore. Because alot more people would hold off from buying the evo dont cha thing?

So you chose not to buy the Evo? Sounds like you want power and performance. That would have been the one to buy.

Abb - why are you comparing 2.0 boosted vs 2.4 stock? when all said and done, you will need $10K to boost 2.0 and have reliability of an everyday car.
FYI, 2.4 also has different seats, climate control (somewhat lol), better suspension and brakes. Doesn't DE come with drums, i dont remember.
When i was buying my gts, i drove the wheels off of 2.0 and 2.4 before i made my decision, and 2.4 was by far quicker and more responsive than 2.0 - not to mention a lot smoother and quiter.
Now, if i was to buy lancer knowing in advance im going to boost it, i would buy DE. Reason being is because i would gut the car to bare bones and put it back up together .. the 2.0 would require a few more extra parts (like a couple of layers of sound deadening, etc) but overall, i would change same parts whether its 2.0 or 2.4 The stock 2.4 suspension, brakes, clutch arent enough to handle boosted performance (dont fight with me over this statement, its not enough for me, i dont care what manufacturers of turbo kits say on their website) and would need to be replaced either way, so the total $$ spent on parts to make it "boost" friendly would be about the same as it would for 2.0. and the difference of a boosted 2.4 vs boosted 2.0 is not enough to justify paying $7K more for gts knowing that the parts you're paying extra for are going to be replaced anyways.

does that make sense?

The GTS manual is only $4200 more than a DE manual. I don't think you can turn a DE into a GTS for $4000. (not just engine, I'm talking everything the gts has that the de doesn't). Same as I don't think you can turn a GTS into a ralliart for $8000. Sure you could turbo it for that, but I can't imagine you could turbo and get AWD for $8000. You may pay more over the years to turn you GTS into a "ralliart/evo" type car, but for some its easier and funner to do that over time rather than spend more upfront and pay lots more finance charges and insurance costs. This is why I think the GTS is a better starting point than the DE cause you can't turn a de into a gts for 4k and also especially if you don't want to pay 27k up front for the ralliart.

As far as getting a lower model because you know your going to just replace the rims and tires anyway, ya I see your point, but some like to have two sets of 18" rims one for summer and one for winter, this way your car doesn't look lame for 6 months of the year. Stock gts rims in the winter and aftermarkets for summer still maintain the look of the car. I hate paying for a car that looks lame in the winter. (forget safety, snow doesn't scare me, lol)

NY-09GTS i totally agree, you cant go from DE to GTS with the price difference in stock cars. And even if you did, whats the point?
But if you were to build a well boosted lancer ground up, i would go with DE and do it. just my .02

As i mentioned before, i dont like the original comparison of boosted DE vs stock GTS - 2 different worlds.

SimmoES, you probably know better than I. I've always said I'm a driver first, into theory 2nd, and a mechanic 3rd. And ya I didn't get the comparison of boosted 2.0 vs stock 2.4 either.

But anyway, so since you know better than me.... (shameless compliment).... forget the ecu flash, how can I convince you to build a turbo kit for me? How many bottles of tequila would it take? LOL.

I think the comparison was based on price of boosted 2.0 is about the same as stock 2.4.

In the end... why boost a weak heavy family sedan....

IMO, I would rather save for a car that is ALREADY boosted and is MEANT to be boosted, I.E. evo x. In the long run it is more reliable because the parts are MEANT and DESIGNED to be there. But that requires patience for saving money (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

+1

If you want speed, buy a fast car... LOL

When doing mods like that you throw all warranty out the window. And if you are looking for a boosted car, like Lube716 said, save up for a boosted car. The Ralliart Lancer would be your best bet because getting a hold of a Evo X can be difficult. A lot of Mitsu dealers only get 5-10 of them to sell per year...

So if you want power and speed, go with the ralliart. At least with the ralliart you have a lot better starting point to start modding it out. 240HP I think in those compared to the 168HP in the GTS, thats a huge difference!! Plus AWD... And the money you would be spending to boost a regular lancer would probably out weigh the difference between a GTS and a Ralliart...

Just food for thought...

DE model has no Air conditioning LOL so technically its lighter. xD

lol it would take a lot more than tequila for me to do that. with 11 hour work days and no garage (36 degrees outside right now), its going to be tough, but not impossible (IMG:style_emoticons/default/gunsmilie.gif)




Evo is still the same heavy family sedan.... on steroids. lol

What fun would that be, I mean anyone can go out an buy a fast car, the whole point is making it fast on your own. Building a EVO fast car or a V8 killer is a lot more fun than just spending 35-40,000 on a factory fast car. That's what lame suit wearing middle aged guys do, lol. IMO, I think its dumb to spend 40k initially on a car and then sink another 10k into it. My background is in muscle cars, this car is my first "import tuner". Heck you could buy a car for 5k mustang and put 15k into it and it would take on any 40k car. What drew me to the lancer was the whole customizing scene that comes with the Lancer. I mean it's almost expected that your going to mod it, why start at 40k and then mod, why not start at 19k (or 15k for the de). If your not going to mod it, just buy a Kia or a lame GM product and be done with it. Sure an evo or ralliart is sweet, but you can make your gts into a evo killer if you really wanted. And that's the fun part. Heck you can build any car into a evo killer. One guy at the track here has a rusted out old beat up POS, with 30k under the hood that runs 9 second 1/4 miles. It's what your into I guess. Customizing for millions of people isn't just a hobby, it's part of their life style. I rather build my GTS into a V8/evo killer, than just buy a fast car. Sure it might take years to do, but again, that's the fun part.

And as for the ralliart price comparison to building your gts. What you guys don't consider is the extra cost of a ralliart over a gts over a 5-6 year loan period. Can you add a turbo and AWD to a GTS for less than the base price of a ralliart, I doubt it. But can you boost and build your GTS into ralliart power and speed for less money when compared over a 5-6 year loan period. I'd say absolutely. I ran the numbers once... you have to remember the ralliart first is 8k more, then you have higher insurance premiums, higher regular maintenance costs, higher costs for most bolt-ons, and all the extra interest that you'll pay on the loan over a 5-6 year loan. In the end, over a 5-6 year period, it's cheaper to boost/build a gts than it is to own a ralliart or an evo and do basic mods to it. The only thing you can't have in the gts is AWD, but front wheel drive is the most efficient way to get the power to the ground anyway, better than awd or rwd, so all you really need is an LSD.

And for the warranty, well I've already stated my opinion on that in other threads, after a few years it's basically useless anyway. For example: you're not getting a new engine or tranny, etc after 5 years and 75,000 miles, they'll find 10 different things to blame the problem on so they don't have to pay. That's how it works, they don't make money buy honoring every warranty claim that comes up.

Just my opinion, but I still think the GTS is the best bang for the buck. In a few years, met me at Watkins Glen with your ralliart and your check book and we'll see who's right, lol.



We'll talk next summer........ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

I agree that modding is a life style, thats for sure!

I got my 2 cents for you:

1. The reason you buy a fast car to begin with is because you will always see more marginal gains from most upgrades you do. Therefore, you have to spend less money to increase your HP. And in the end you will always be going faster.
2. I bought a 09' GTS and have no plans to make it a fast car. Like I said before, if I wanted fast I would have bought fast and went crazy with mods.
3. Good luck turning a GTS into a Evo killer... Even if you could do it, I don't see it costing any less than $20K. I wouldn't normally consider spending over 20K on modding a car the fun part... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laughing.gif)
4. I disagree with the getting Ralliart power out of a GTS for less than the differance between them. Here in Canada the differance is about $6K. Your turbo kit alone is going to be over $5K not including all the other components you are going to have to change. So I doubt you can make as much power on that budget.
5. Paying more interest on a more expensive vehicle is a definate hurdle. But depending on when you buy there is 0% financing out there. Even if it wasn't 0%, the differance in the end would probably be less than $1K. I love my 0%!!! LOL
6. Reliability. Do you think bolting on a turbo to your GTS is going to be more reliable than a factory Ralliart turbo system? I personally doubt it. Especially if you are also considering a limited slip diff for a FWD GTS. LSD's have "FAIL" written all over them. All I ever read is how they blow up all the time.
7. Also, I don't understand your logic about FWD being superior to RWD and AWD... I just don't get it, its physics man. Weight distribution is a beautiful thing and FWD is the only drivetrain that doesn't use it to its advantage... Once you hit 300HP, if you could hit that many HP, even with a LSD FWD, there is no way you put the power to the ground efficiently. With weight distribution working against you, FWD is actually the most in-efficient way of putting power to the ground.
8. I agree, the dealerships will always find 10 ways to blame you for a failure. But if you start doing extensive mods like turbo etc, they will find over 100 reasons its your fault.

I guess that was more like 8 cents than it was 2 cents... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laughing.gif) LOL

I do see where you are coming from about the doing it yourself. My first truck was a rusted out 89 Chevy S10. I put a 350 V8 and a 4 speed muncie from an old corvette in it. It was originally a 2.8L V6 with an auto tranny, so there was quite a bit of work involved in that project. Looking back, the experience as a whole was fun, but man it cost me 1.5 times the amount I expected and had saved for... And then on top of that, my plans changed several times throughout making it very stressfull being my only vehicle at the time. Having to cut out the inner wheel wells to fit the headers, crap like that I never expected. But it is all about the journey I guess.

Well, if you decide to go hard on the performance mods, I wish you luck. You will have a lot of fun and a lot of headaches through the whole thing. You will definately learn a lot and will have a terrific story to tell in the end.

Good luck man!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

^ I respect your opinion, even if it is wrong, haha, kiddin.
No really though we all have our own opinions and that's what makes the world go round. If we all thought the same way, we'd all have the same cars and that would be lame.

The only point I'll comment on is #7. I didn't say FWD was superior, but I did state my point wrong. What I meant was FWD is the most efficient way to get the power from the engine to the wheels. Less moving parts equals more efficiency. The percentage of power loss from the engine to the wheels is far less in front wheel drive vehicles. In RWD there are more parts in the chain that are needed to drive the wheels and awd same thing, plus your driving 4 wheels, compared to one or two in the other scenarios, that equals the potential for a higher percentage of power loss. If you've ever looked at my dyno posted (sticky) in this forum, you'll see I only lost 10.2 hp and 3.5 ft/lbs torque from the engine to the wheels. That's like a 6-7% loss. That's extremely efficient. When I did a dyno on my mustang when it was stock I lost 35hp from the engine to the wheels. That's a 15-16% loss and AWD typically has a higher percentage loss. But also note that just because the % loss from the engine to the wheels can be greater in rwd or awd that doesn't necessary equate to a slower car for the reasons you mentioned, weight distribution, traction, etc.

amen.

i respect your opinions and now its my turn

1) incorrect.. compare exhaust for lancer vs exhaust for bmw m3? You can buy 20 Injen mufflers for Lancer with what you will pay for M3 exhaust
2) no comment
3) ain't nothing to it but to do it brother. 300hp for EVO is like 260-270 for Lancer - reason being is that you lose a lot of HP.. I'm sure somewhere on this forum there is a stock dyno of an Evo and you will see what i mean. Factory #s are 291hp - i bet you wont put down more than 240WHP on a dyno. With that said, with a good engine built, turbo and a dyno tune, FWD lancer will annihilate Evo. Again I repeat myself, forget $6k overpriced turbo kits, its all in the tune. Whats a friggin turbo? a simple turbine. You get a turbine off used Subaru or Saab and you're all set. The hardest part is to find turbo header - but thankfully Hyundai Genesis uses the same mitsu engine so you can pickup turbo manifold from Hyundai (probably for a lot cheaper than Mitsu sells their evo manifolds), the next hard step is to map out intake route and build all the piping. Strap an engine management system and you've got yourself a turbo kit, for A LOT less than what kits retail for. But dont stop there, you still have another $15K to spare until you hit the cost of Evo.. go to a local machine shop and have them build you forged pistons, rods, head, flywheel. Pickup new clutch, chassis braces, suspension and whatever else you got money left for and watch the evo guy in the rear view mirror. Of course, all this requires knowledge and a lot of sweat (not counting endless nights in the garage, lots of beer and pissed of wife) - but the end result is worth it
4) common mate. for extra $6k i can push lancer faster than ralliart (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) but seriously, you can probably get used VW jetta turbo kit with all its goodies, modify it a bit and you will get faster results than ralliart. You only need 4-5 psi to lancer to beat ralliart
5) no comment
6) Reliability? barking up the wrong tree.. Older Evos SUCKED, period. Besides, anything goes wrong with EVO you gonna hear "sir you pushed the car too far, this part's failure is due to your negligence" - they even have less warranty than regular lancers (not that any dealership would allow you to use it)
7) i basically already commented on this one in #3. FWD loses a lot more HP than AWD by the time power is transferred to the wheels. With enough money spent on suspension, you wont have any problems keeping the car on the ground with 300+ hp.. Its not like we're talking about 800hp - thats a different story
8) wouldnt you rather have 100 legit reasons thatn 10 idiotic? like " well we dont know why your wipers dont work, maybe its because of the aftermarket stereo you installed (YEP, MY WIFE HEARD THAT AT THE DEALER).

and last but not least - it feels soooooo good to whoop a$$ in a sleeper car than in expensive fast one. You pull up to red light in an evo, chances are people wont rev their cars at you.. When i used to pull up in my hyundai elantra, there were revs going on from miles away lol - followed by "WTF is under the hood" - at the next light (IMG:style_emoticons/default/trophy.gif)
There go my 8 cents (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) no pun intended

There you go SimmoES, exactly all the points I was trying to make. I didn't feel like arguing, so I didn't even bother in my last response. You know and I know what were laying down and that's the ability to blow a factory fast, overpriced, expensive cars doors off for A LOT less money.

I actually came back here to add to my previous post, I didn't want to argue all the points cause it seems like they aren't listening, but I did want to add on the price of a turbo setup, but you beat me too it. You explained it perfectly. Forget the $4200 rrm kits, or whoever else has one has a kit coming out. I've been doing my homework, since i never really dealt with turbo's before. Either DIY it or even a local shop that specializes in turbos can do it for a lot less than 4k. When I had my car in for the dyno, I was talking to the owner about turbos (he has a 1000hp turbo vette) and I told him about the 4k kits, he told me they could do it for me for half the cost installed. And then, just like you said take that left over 15k and build the internals.

I love when people try to argue that you can't make a GTS (or ES or DE) fast and powerful and basically their only response is: you can't do that, go buy an EVO. I will love seeing the look on their face when I blow their doors off in my 300+ hp FWD GTS. Every time I hear go buy an evo, it just solidifies my decision to make this a project car. I've already been keeping a running total of the money I spent, and it will be lot's of 1000's cheaper.