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> Smoke Out Of The Tailpipe
alpha_ai
post Feb 11 2010, 02:04 AM
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Hello there,

There is smoke coming out of my tailpipe.
It looks black and i think i saw some blue.

I took it into one mechanic today and he said that its most likely the
engine is on its way out. he said around $4500 for overhaul.

Ive checked up on other sites and they say that the
oil could be getting past the piston rings due to piston rings have become cracked or broken or loose or whatever
and this same guy said that the mechanic will generally replace piston rings on an engine tune up.
Is this right?

Checked the oil and it was low, and i know this because there is an oil leak under the car somewhere that i need to get fixed.

I have checked the engine tune up in my manual and there is mention of replacing piston rings.
So my questions are:

1. Does the engine have to come out of the car to replace the piston rings or can it be done with the engine in my car.
2. What you recommend I do?

Ben
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94STAR
post Feb 11 2010, 02:42 AM
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Ben,

Firstly don't panic, top up your oil level to the Max mark on the dipstick on level ground after the engine has been off for a while to make sure all the oil has run back down to the sump. Take note of your km reading

Check it again in a week and see if it has gone down and how many ks you have done, a 12 yr old car is going to have some wear and will use some oil, as a rule of thumb high to low mark on the dipstick will be about one litre.

Piston rings are only replaceable after a total strip down, so major.

Try and take note of the colour of the smoke, blue is definitely burnt oil meaning either rings or valve guide wear letting oil into combustion chamber, black is more likely poorly burnt fuel, mixture or something amiss in the fuel injection system. I live with blue smoke and I think I would miss it if I did not have it, a good dose of burnt oil in the morning is better than coffee to get you going
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chain rattle
post Feb 11 2010, 05:34 AM
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to slow the process you could add an oil treatment to your engine oil
product like "stop smoke" additive

next option is a second hand motor from a wrecker
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alpha_ai
post Feb 11 2010, 07:19 AM
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QUOTE (chain rattle @ Feb 11 2010, 06:34 AM) *
to slow the process you could add an oil treatment to your engine oil
product like "stop smoke" additive

next option is a second hand motor from a wrecker


Ok so ive got some "stop smoke" additive.
I also wondered whether I can increase the viscosity of the oil for my car.
Currently ive been using 15W-40 and due to the oil leak, managed to lose a fair bit over time.
I guess the thicker the oil, the less that will come out?

What do you recommend?

ben
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94STAR
post Feb 11 2010, 04:28 PM
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Ben,

I guess with an oil leak, measuring consumption is not going to give any indication of how much it is burning.

Check out the Penrite range of oils, perhaps HPR30 or HPR40

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/motor-oil/hpr/hpr_30

Jim
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Curioso
post Feb 11 2010, 05:33 PM
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Smoke out of the tailpipe? You sure you don't have a "banana in the tailpipe" like Edie Murphy did to the cops in Beverly Hills Cop? Just joking.

The standard answer is valve stem oil seals, those little caps at the base of each valve that stop oil getting through from the top of the cylinder head into the chambers. Apparently that causes blue smoke, but only when the car takes off from a stationary point, as it has then had time for the oil to soak down into the chambers. When driving, less can get in as the oil is moving around all the time.

You can change the valve stem oil seals with an Overhead Spring Compressor tool but get one that costs over $50 from eBay. There's some cheaper ones that don't work well if at all. With it, you need a spark plug attachment to plug an air compressor hose into each cylinder as you do it. With air pressure on each chamber, the valve won't be able to slip down into the head itself. If that happens, you will definitely have to remove the entire cylinder head to retrieve and refit the valve (remember that the springs of each valve have to come off to change the oil seals on them, so nothing is holding that valve in place except the compressed air you pump into its chamber). With this method, you don't need to remove the cylinder head at all to change the oil seals on it.

Curioso
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alpha_ai
post Feb 12 2010, 02:45 AM
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QUOTE (Curioso @ Feb 11 2010, 06:33 PM) *
Smoke out of the tailpipe? You sure you don't have a "banana in the tailpipe" like Edie Murphy did to the cops in Beverly Hills Cop? Just joking.

The standard answer is valve stem oil seals, those little caps at the base of each valve that stop oil getting through from the top of the cylinder head into the chambers. Apparently that causes blue smoke, but only when the car takes off from a stationary point, as it has then had time for the oil to soak down into the chambers. When driving, less can get in as the oil is moving around all the time.

You can change the valve stem oil seals with an Overhead Spring Compressor tool but get one that costs over $50 from eBay. There's some cheaper ones that don't work well if at all. With it, you need a spark plug attachment to plug an air compressor hose into each cylinder as you do it. With air pressure on each chamber, the valve won't be able to slip down into the head itself. If that happens, you will definitely have to remove the entire cylinder head to retrieve and refit the valve (remember that the springs of each valve have to come off to change the oil seals on them, so nothing is holding that valve in place except the compressed air you pump into its chamber). With this method, you don't need to remove the cylinder head at all to change the oil seals on it.

Curioso


Hello,

So what has caused the Piston Rings and Valve Stem Oil Seals to deteriorate?
Is it just Engine Life now too short, is it wrong type of oil, wrong type of fuel?

Ive been using E10 as my fuel and once have alternated between that
and Premium.
Ive also been use 15W-40 as my oil.

If I can find out what has caused this to deteriorate then i know how to prevent this from reoccuring in the future.

Ben
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Curioso
post Feb 12 2010, 03:32 AM
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Valve stem oil seals only last about 50,000km before they start to wear. Possibly a bit less if you have a hotter than normal running engine.

Your oil type is normal. I've used that type as well as 20W/40 and if I use Magnatec its 10W/40. Little difference either way.

I guess if someone rebuilt the engine and didn't fit the valve stem oil seals to specification (they have an exact height they have to be installed to) or messed up the piston rings somehow, you would get earlier than usual problems. That's if the engine isn't old enough to have these issues at this time.

I've never changed the piston rings on my car and it's 20 years old and doesn't use much oil at all. But the car has never been run very hard.

Premium burns much hotter than normal fuel. Try a 50/50 mix with normal Unleaded once every four times. You might be overheating the engine or head.

Curioso
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mjt
post Feb 15 2010, 09:43 PM
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I would not recommend the thicker oil to deal with your leak. Fix the leak. Thick oil can gum up the motor. 20W-50 is usually recommended for warmer climates. Black smoke can be from excessive carbon build up or a bad injector. Bad injectors can dump excessive fuel into the cylinder and cause blue smoke.

When you see the blue smoke is it while accelerating or decelerating down a hill. Valve seals tend to leak on high vacuum conditions i.e. throttle closed. Try holding the throttle at about 2000rpm for a minute then let off gas and see if you get smoke or while going down a hill with your foot off the gas. If you get blue smoke while accelerating it is likely piston rings. Best way to know is do a compression check.
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